Do the colleges have to provide English & Maths classes; or is it night school?
Or something else?
If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at 16+
Moderator: busybusybusy
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
The colleges don't have to do it, but most do because it's important. Not really for the piece of paper, but because without the actual skills and knowledge, everything is so much harder.
GCSE English isn't really that hard if they can write in proper structured sentences, rather than text speak, but Maths is quite different. Many artistic people have major problems with maths, and sorting this out is pretty critical. English, if they regularly read scripts, isn't normally too much of a problem.
The real issue is that colleges don't like students with bad maths and English, because it is a sign they didn't try. This isn't everyone, of course, but it usually signifies they just didn't try hard enough, or take it seriously. I was never any good at Biology at school - but when I was in a class in a school, they were doing a past paper for practice, a few days ahead of the exam. As the session was 'exam conditions', I had nothing to do, so did the exam paper, and based on my answers, I was pleased to see that umpteen years of 'life skills' would have got me a B in that paper! when I've taken English classes, getting structured, considered comment with description following the usual English rules is just too boring for many, and they'd rather be doing something else!
Colleges get hit by OFSTED if they don't offer chances to improve numeracy and literacy. However, the stats for re-takes of English and Maths are not brilliant at all.
GCSE English isn't really that hard if they can write in proper structured sentences, rather than text speak, but Maths is quite different. Many artistic people have major problems with maths, and sorting this out is pretty critical. English, if they regularly read scripts, isn't normally too much of a problem.
The real issue is that colleges don't like students with bad maths and English, because it is a sign they didn't try. This isn't everyone, of course, but it usually signifies they just didn't try hard enough, or take it seriously. I was never any good at Biology at school - but when I was in a class in a school, they were doing a past paper for practice, a few days ahead of the exam. As the session was 'exam conditions', I had nothing to do, so did the exam paper, and based on my answers, I was pleased to see that umpteen years of 'life skills' would have got me a B in that paper! when I've taken English classes, getting structured, considered comment with description following the usual English rules is just too boring for many, and they'd rather be doing something else!
Colleges get hit by OFSTED if they don't offer chances to improve numeracy and literacy. However, the stats for re-takes of English and Maths are not brilliant at all.
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2dancersmum
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Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
That's interesting to hear that most already do. With the changes announced last September that children have to get a C grade in both GCSE English and Maths or keep trying until they leave school at 18 (bearing in mind that the school leaving age in England is now 18 and children must be in full time education or training until that age), I had sort of expected some confusion this year as classes are one thing - exam syllabus classes and entering exams are slightly different. I know DDs friend was told at one college she applied for that she could only do the course she wanted if she passed her English and Maths first.
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
To be very honest, it's a mess. Colleges are only really interested in funding. Can a course run or not and make a profit? If they have an intake with poor Maths and English, then it's cost effective to put the 'problem' students in a class with others from perhaps totally different subjects, and teach them to pass the exam. The maths people are not that keen, because the kids have holes in their knowledge, and that's what usually causes the grief. Given the choice of an extra dance class or doing some maths, guess which one gets the effort?
Some teachers I've spoken to don't think that it's possible for everyone to pass with a decent grade anyway, so are viewing it as a bit of a waste of time. The interpretation of the rules is that as long as they try till they're 18, that's as good as it will get.
Some colleges see this as too much effort and a waste of resources, so can happily screen out poor maths and english grade people - however, my understanding is that if they are low on numbers, then the maths/english rule will instantly be forgotten. The better colleges will also understand that performing arts people get good grades because of many reasons, but maths and english really don't impact grades very much.
When I was teaching, I became Mr Maths because I was the only person in the entire department of actors, singers, dancers and musicians who had a maths qualification. I absolutely hated it. Teaching means, modes and medians to dancers was mind numbing for us all. One girl did not know that shifting the decimal point one place to the right was multiplying by 10! She'd missed this out completely and it wasn't picked up at school. She then said "if i move it the other way, is that dividing by ten?" She wasn't dim, she genuinely didn't know.
One college I'm aware of have worked out that offering the maths and english is a good way to get extra students over the border between counties. They have to go somewhere, so why not seek the poor maths and english people out.
Some teachers I've spoken to don't think that it's possible for everyone to pass with a decent grade anyway, so are viewing it as a bit of a waste of time. The interpretation of the rules is that as long as they try till they're 18, that's as good as it will get.
Some colleges see this as too much effort and a waste of resources, so can happily screen out poor maths and english grade people - however, my understanding is that if they are low on numbers, then the maths/english rule will instantly be forgotten. The better colleges will also understand that performing arts people get good grades because of many reasons, but maths and english really don't impact grades very much.
When I was teaching, I became Mr Maths because I was the only person in the entire department of actors, singers, dancers and musicians who had a maths qualification. I absolutely hated it. Teaching means, modes and medians to dancers was mind numbing for us all. One girl did not know that shifting the decimal point one place to the right was multiplying by 10! She'd missed this out completely and it wasn't picked up at school. She then said "if i move it the other way, is that dividing by ten?" She wasn't dim, she genuinely didn't know.
One college I'm aware of have worked out that offering the maths and english is a good way to get extra students over the border between counties. They have to go somewhere, so why not seek the poor maths and english people out.
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
Just panicking a bit
I'm sure she passed <gulp>
I'm sure she passed <gulp>
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
I am beginning to feel the same way ... two weeks to go ... gulp!Katymac wrote:Just panicking a bit
I'm sure she passed <gulp>
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
I really wouldn't worry. It's the places the kids will be going to who are doing the worrying. Most are expecting to have to at least have the classes available simply to cater for those offered places who might not come simply because of maths and english. Most people won't wish to give up their chosen place to stay in 6th form, so somebody else will make sure their places are protected. My enquiries seem to suggest that the colleges have accepted that they have to have these courses on offer, but after two years, if the students haven't got the maths and english, I don't think any sleep will have been lost.
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fizzycandy123
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Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
Hi this is so interesting ive been worring about this for a while now,i turn sixteen in september so have a year to go,i am confident i will get a c in my subject all except maths i am ally bad even though i do try soo hard,I am doing foundation which from this year they have made more 'functional' meaning it will have more words involved in the question which always throws me,so if i do fail can i still do a college course.x?
Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
Hi Fizzycandy,
You should be fine at college and can always retake. My dd sat her GCSEs this year and despite worrying, passed them all and well. I took GCSE maths (Foundation) and also passed
I was relieved though, as a friend said she retook maths 6 times before she passed in order to do a degree!
You should be fine at college and can always retake. My dd sat her GCSEs this year and despite worrying, passed them all and well. I took GCSE maths (Foundation) and also passed
I was relieved though, as a friend said she retook maths 6 times before she passed in order to do a degree!Re: If they don't pass GCSE English or Maths what happens at
Don't worry - if you are good, and they want you for your performing arts skills, they will worry about the maths for you! The colleges know that maths is really tough for many artistic people - you don't need to worry. The only time it will matter is if they have too many applicants, and they are all brilliant at maths and as good as you at dance/singing/acting - and this just won't happen! P