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Hi chivers61
I understand your point. My dd auditioned knowing that she would never meet the grades but I suppose we just initially thought that this can't be strictly adhered to as they also state on their website that exceptionally talented auditionees who would not meet the grades would be considered so we were just hoping for the best. It was not until she went for her recall that she realised how strict they are. I do however know of a young man who was offered a scholarship with GSA for their BA MT and he did not have any A levels/Btec but this was about 10 years ago x

Hi Mummyofthree
Thanks for getting back to my post a couple of days ago. Very interesting that your daughter was offered a place for the Hammond BA (Hons) course from last Tuesday as was mine - well done! Do you know anyone who is currently on the course?? I know it only started up a couple of years ago. I was looking on a site called Unistats and although there isn't much info. for this course it does seem to indicate that the contact hours are really small. In fact in the 3rd year it says that it is only 16%. What would they be doing for the other 84%? I don't want to contact Hammond directly in case they get annoyed and take the place away!! but it would be great to hear from someone on the course as to whether this might be true. My daughter also auditioned for ALRA but wasn't offered a place so your daughter has a good choice already. The Hammond course seems to be heavily over-subscribed so I assume it must be a good course. It is a very reputable school so I can't imagine it would be offering a course with very low contact hours but it would be awful to go there and find out the hard way. I know a girl who went to a less well known uni for MT last year and was really disappointed with how low the contact hours were and has since left and gone to another 'better' one. I would be very interested to hear if anyone else has anything to say on this. Unistats is a fascinating website!

Most of the universities seem to have between 16-19 hours contact time, like most uni courses the student will be issued with an assignment to do and it is up to the student to use the facilities to achieve what is required. My daughter has a school friend in her 1st Year of her degree at the Hammond and is loving it. Their website does state around 19 hours a week contact time.

Hi again

Thanks so much for all your comments. Yes it is quite a bone of contention. It does say on their website and I quote " Offers are made in terms of grades and successful audition and interview. Candidates who can demonstrate exceptional talent, and can satisfy the panel of their ability to successfully complete the programme may also be considered"
So I guess all the people who do not have the grades are hoping that they fall in to that category. If this is false and you don't stand a chance because you haven't got the grades there is really no point in them recalling you. They have all the information about your grades through ucas.

So here's hoping he's exceptional then.. haha.. We have nothing to lose. His sister goes to GSA (she doesn't know anybody there who didn't get the grades) So he can stay with her. And I've heard the audition day is great so he may as well have a go.

Hi yes I read they get 19 hours contact time. I know a friend of friends daughter does the course and is loving it! My daughter really enjoyed the audition too and felt at home there! She is lucky to have Alra as an option too but feels that with Alra it's just the BA acting course and feels feels she would miss out on the dance and singing training if she went there. She has a huge passion for musical theatre so we think that The Hammond is the best option it also has a reputable name.

Apologies if my comment about GSA and grades came over wrongly. There are a number of reasons to audition even if the grades are unachievable, not least of which is that there is always hope. I do think the info from last year of up to 20% of places is probably true based on the wording on the website. That would mean about 5 or 6 places available at below grade. Whilst they cannot know prior to first audition how good a candidate is it does seem disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst to audition so many who have only a small hope of getting in because they can't get the grades.

GSA was a good quality recall day but they did stipulate on many occasions that it was also down to grades ,Speaking to other students they also said that the grades are vital, but there is always hope.

Hi Mummyofthree and chivers61. Thank you very much for your thoughts regarding the contact hours at Hammond. It's great that you actually know someone there and they really love it. I have to say we know someone who knows someone and they really love it too so all that is sounding great. I've looked and looked on their website and cannot see for the life of me the bit about 19 hours but it is obviously there - I can't see for looking! 19 hours doesn't sound bad to be honest - I was thinking it could be worse than that looking at Unistats. Hammond does have a great name and my daughter really, really enjoyed her audition there so it is looking very likely. Thanks for your thoughts so far - it's great to have other people to ask! I wonder how much dance they do in comparison to the acting and singing. I know it is mainly singing and acting with some dance. It would be great if there was the opportunity to take some additional dance classes but I don't know if that could be an option?

fatladysings wrote:Hi Mummyofthree and chivers61. Thank you very much for your thoughts regarding the contact hours at Hammond. It's great that you actually know someone there and they really love it. I have to say we know someone who knows someone and they really love it too so all that is sounding great. I've looked and looked on their website and cannot see for the life of me the bit about 19 hours but it is obviously there - I can't see for looking! 19 hours doesn't sound bad to be honest - I was thinking it could be worse than that looking at Unistats. Hammond does have a great name and my daughter really, really enjoyed her audition there so it is looking very likely. Thanks for your thoughts so far - it's great to have other people to ask! I wonder how much dance they do in comparison to the acting and singing. I know it is mainly singing and acting with some dance. It would be great if there was the opportunity to take some additional dance classes but I don't know if that could be an option?

It depends on what you want from a course. I would email them if you have any questions. It is a big decision and one you wish to be happy with. Yes it is nice if they love it but it still has to be getting them to where they need to be at the end of it. For example from arts ed course - this is what to expect and Bird said students would be putting in similar amounts - 19 hours does not sound much but maybe there is more on top of this?

What does a typical timetable look like and how is the day structured?
Very full! You have classes or rehearsals all day, five days a week from 8.45am to 6pm and sometimes beyond. You will then have work to prepare for the following day. You could be going from an acting class straight into ensemble singing straight into jazz followed by Speech & Voice and 1-2-1 singing!

Robin64 wrote:

fatladysings wrote:Hi Mummyofthree and chivers61. Thank you very much for your thoughts regarding the contact hours at Hammond. It's great that you actually know someone there and they really love it. I have to say we know someone who knows someone and they really love it too so all that is sounding great. I've looked and looked on their website and cannot see for the life of me the bit about 19 hours but it is obviously there - I can't see for looking! 19 hours doesn't sound bad to be honest - I was thinking it could be worse than that looking at Unistats. Hammond does have a great name and my daughter really, really enjoyed her audition there so it is looking very likely. Thanks for your thoughts so far - it's great to have other people to ask! I wonder how much dance they do in comparison to the acting and singing. I know it is mainly singing and acting with some dance. It would be great if there was the opportunity to take some additional dance classes but I don't know if that could be an option?

It depends on what you want from a course. I would email them if you have any questions. It is a big decision and one you wish to be happy with. Yes it is nice if they love it but it still has to be getting them to where they need to be at the end of it. For example from arts ed course - this is what to expect and Bird said students would be putting in similar amounts - 19 hours does not sound much but maybe there is more on top of this?

What does a typical timetable look like and how is the day structured?
Very full! You have classes or rehearsals all day, five days a week from 8.45am to 6pm and sometimes beyond. You will then have work to prepare for the following day. You could be going from an acting class straight into ensemble singing straight into jazz followed by Speech & Voice and 1-2-1 singing!

You've hit two nails on the head. You need to know what the end game is and what you want from the course. The other is that 19 hours a week is highly unlikely to be enough to get "industry ready" unless DC is already exceptionally good. DD is currently doing 40 hours a week plus rehearsals. She's in doing 10 hours today! They have master classes and Q&A with industry specialists at 7pm for two hours from time to time. There is nothing wrong at all with 19 hours a week but you have to know where that is realistically likely and not likely to lead.

There is mention above of having to find dance classes outside of a course and that is the nub of the question. The course is not getting you industry ready for what you're paying them if you need to find and pay for extra classes on top. I reiterate though it depends on what outcome you're looking for.

itsalongshot wrote:GSA was a good quality recall day but they did stipulate on many occasions that it was also down to grades ,Speaking to other students they also said that the grades are vital, but there is always hope.

If there are never any exceptions made then they should not say that on their website and allow everyone to audition and pay the money. Also what is the point of inviting someone back for a recall. So I'm hoping that they do sometimes make exceptions but even if they do we may never know. For someone to be an exception they would probably have to be outstanding. Anyway my DS has nothing to lose but to try.

Hi chivers61 and Robin64 - thank you so much for your advice. I was a little worried about contacting Hammond and querying their hours in case they 'took the place away' again because they thought I was being difficult but I do think it would be unwise to blunder in with little information and regret it later down the line! I have certainly heard that places like Bird, Laine, Mountview, GSA and Art Ed etc are doing very full days every day of the week and extras so as you say 19 hours is probably only half in reality what these other places are offering. My DD would love to try to go into it professionally eventually although we both know she isn't exceptionally talented so it's a huge gamble but hoping hard work and a lot of luck might bridge the gap! However in my experience if someone hasn't gone to one of the places I have mentioned above, or one offering a similar amount of contact hours they stand very little chance of 'making it' in MT in particular regardless of ability. DD is definitely looking for somewhere which will offer her the very best preparation to go into the industry in 3 or 4 years. She would love Arts Ed in dreamland but I think it is extremely difficult to get into isn't it?? She has her audition there on 3rd April. Also the bigger financial implications but that's a whole different can of worms!

Obviously you will make the best choice for your daughter but it is not worth the worry of committing financially to something that will be a real struggle. I believe that no matter what place you go to if you have talent it will shine through. I also think that a degree will open up more opportunities for other jobs within the industry if your child doesn't achieve the dream. These are just my thoughts, others will disagree. I know a lot of the ensemble on the west end come from the colleges you have quoted but not everyone goes there and there are plenty of other jobs in the industry for example west end productions on cruise ships.

Hi fatladysings and kzgirl. There is no right or wrong answer here, or good or bad. It's about going in with your eyes wide open and with sensible expectations about possible outcomes. And I totally agree that there is also your personal financial situation to think about and the impact on the family as a whole. in terms of having a degree in MT it certainly will help in finding employment where a degree is a requirement so if it's a safety net you want then that's the right thing to do.

You're right kzgirl in that there are other jobs such as shows on cruise ships, Disneyland Paris and panto but those are outlets for all colleges including the so-called dream colleges. There is not nearly enough work on the West End for all their grads who therefore have to apply for work anywhere and everywhere.

I have to say the thread on 19 hours worries me a lot. To be industry ready ,contact hours have to high and the days long. There a some uni courses where I know of students doing their showcases about now and are concerned over whether they will get an agent. They are about to leave feeling totally unready . At the musical theatre schools ,it is which agent will I get ? Not everyone is in a position to go to one of these or necessarily wants to. The colleges, unis will give you figures so worth contacting them but the students that do the courses are best informed . Staff may put in more than their contact hours etc.