Value of degree in the real world?

[yorshiremum]

I'm wondering about the whole degree/diploma dilemma too. DD had the option to take a traditional degree as her A levels were Maths, Geography and Economics along with a single BTEC in performing arts. As I'd insisted on the A level route, I let her make the next decision on where and what she wanted to study, and she came to the conclusion that heart was only in MT and that was what she wanted to do! She has now ended up with 2 MT degree options and 1 diploma, so I have been toying with the advantages and disadvantages of both. Conclusion being at the moment, a fully funded diploma would be the favoured option (if it happens) with the option of a degree conversion, followed by the degree over a non funded diploma. I think I feel more comfortable with the degree option though as it seems easier with things like accommodation but we'll see!

[Lorry]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is having to think hard about mt degree or dipolma
Like yorshiremum imthinking dipolma with funding or degree with out funding but it seems such a mine field

[moleseymum]

Much the same point of view here, DS is applying for degrees due to a) the possibility of doing a PGCE in the future to be a primary school teacher and b) because of the student finance aspect.

I work in a school and it seems that the vast majority of supply teachers and TAs that come via an agency are actors!

[paulears]

As the originator of the quote I though I'd add my two pennyworth!

My DH, at 48, hates his current job (a personality clash) He's been there 8 years and in the IT industry for 20+ so he has huge experience but he can't even apply for other, similar jobs because, in every case, an essential requirement is a degree - they don't care what the degree is in - you just need to be 'educated to degree level'. This was not the case when he left school nor even just 10 years ago - then his industry training was enough - no longer.
.

I'd say he IS educated to degree level, almost certainly beyond. I'd rather take an older, experienced person with a proven track record than a wet behind the ears graduate, and so would many firms who have an ounce of common sense.

When I was a teacher - my qualification was in post 16 education, yet when an agency asked me to teach in a school, I thought I couldn't, but in fact, my 15 years teaching, and experience of working for the exam boards meant the Department of Education granted me the status to teach in schools, that a new teacher normally takes three years to achieve. I didn't know this, but the agency phoned up and told me that I'd not mentioned I could teach in schools, I was confused, but they'd been on the Government database and there it was.

Tell your husband to get applying - My brother-in-law has been in IT, and even in his early 60s, regularly applies for new jobs and gets them - he's done this for years, two or three in each one, gets bored, and moves on. Most firms that have seen the degree standard know too well that older people may well bet better employees!

[fartoomuchtodo]

Ta for the encourgaement Paulears but he has actually tried. The problem is he works in education (i.e. he's a school IT manager) and these kind of jobs tend to be a kind of 'tick box' approach. Feedback from those he's applied for and the 2 interviews he's had has been ' you've got lots of experience but we had other, better qualified applicants...'.

in my experience Molseymum many teacher are frustrated actors anyway

[riverdancefan]

along the same lines

My DH is a a whizz with stats and maths, got great A levels in both but went into plumbing and heating through necessity ( his Dad died) he needed to earn and earn quick.
He is quite high up in his job now but HATES it.
He has coached my sons and numerous other friends through GCSE maths, improving their grades by 1 and sometimes 2 levels, he is a natural teacher.

He teaches in his job now but would LOVE to retrain as a school teacher.

We simply cannot afford the drop in money during his teacher training or as a newly-qualified teacher, such a shame!

His life experience and the way he deals with teenagers and his apprentices I think is remarkable, he would be an assett to teaching,......but sadly it's not going to happen now.

[Katymac]

Something you have to remember is that some of the children on Diplomas would not be capable of doing a degree; there are jobs out there that you don't need a degree for

If you assume as the last few governments have that 50% (or whatever) of the population will have a degree you have to accept that 50% won't

[funnygirl]

Why is that, Katymac? For the degree course my dd is doing there were no academic requirements and no one even checked that she had passed Maths and English GSCE, let alone any of the others. She doesn't have A levels. The small amount of academic work that she does as part of the course is not remotely stretching so I can't see why from a purely academic perspective it wouldn't be open to anyone!

[Katymac]

Where is that?

LSC want 280 Ucas points

[paulears]

I have to admit that a few of my ex-students surprised me by getting a degree - I know that some of them were lazy, ill equipped for proper academic study, and pretty weak - yet they have one!

The Government provide a nice list of 'approved' organisations who can offer a degree, but if you read it carefully, the list has been produced by establishments that appear to be 'recognised bodies'. In fact, the Government have no control at all, because the ability to award degrees is by Royal Charter, and for most universities, a historic power. They can, if they wish then authorise other providers to award degrees. A small number get their power from an Act of Parliament. So the universities control their own degrees, and within quite wide extremes, control the content, in terms of practical vs written content.

The universities team up, and allow newcomers, only if they meet quite high standards.

[Welsh Mum]

If you are doing a vocational degree like Acting or Musical Theatre the amount of written academic work is very minimal and directly related to what you are doing practically.

[woody]

Something that strikes me about the degree-level qualification particularly for dancers, is that it is a relatively short career (and can be brought to an abrupt end by injury). They really do need a qualification to fall back on, and to enable them to retrain if they wish.

My dd is a classical ballet dancer currently mid-auditions and if she starts a degree course in September aged 16 then she will not be doing A-levels at all and will miss them out entirely - so a degree at the end of it could prove invaluable in the long run.

[funnygirl]

I suppose this is what I was trying to find out, Woody. Will it be invaluable inasmuch as will it be actually recognised as a degree in the same way as a degree in Maths, or history or a science for example. The only benefit that seems to have been highlighted in this conversation is that it can help get onto a PGCE course - which is fine if you want to teach!

[2dancersmum]

I suspect that it is still of value in the real world. There are more careers out there than just teaching for which a dance degree or mt degree may prove useful. If you look at graduate destinations for those studying dance at university, they do not always perform or teach afterwards but head for arts management positions, dance therapy, dance in community organisations etc. Also No-one has so far mentioned that there is a BA conversion course that students can do after the level 6 diploma in dance and several of them for converting the mt diploma. The BA is in Professional Practice and as part of the course I know the students look at what else they could do other than perform with their qualifications, looking long term as well as short term.
And completely separate to this - I know of dance and mt graduates who have either graduated or changed their minds before reaching the end of the 3rd year who have gone on to do other things. One entered onto the graduate programme for a bank, another is training to be a midwife, another entered the graduate scheme of a national department store chain, another now writes for a living, another opened her own dance store and one is a very successful pharmaceutical sales rep. Note I say entry at graduate level and not school leaver with A levels.
I think if you look at degrees in general there are just as many that do not lead to an obvious job as those that do. By this I mean - you study medicine to be a doctor, engineering to be an engineer but English, History etc do not have an obvious job linked to them. Some employers may well dismiss acting, mt and dance degrees as less academic and less worthy but others will recognise that these graduates have the work ethic and various transferrable skills to make them an asset to the workplace.

[carriecrafts]

It is also worth considering that Student Finance is only available for a first degree, so those wishing to retrain later may be unable to afford to do a second degree. Now that finance is going to be available for postgrad that may be an option I suppose but there is certainly an argument for not wasting entitlement to student loans on a career that is so uncertain, competitive and possibly short lived - particularly when the degree qualification itself won't improve chances of stage success but is viewed only as 'back-up' or for later in life