Hilltop wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:01 pm
Hi, my DD has just attended the Italia Conti audition preparation course, which she enjoyed and found useful, but I think it was a bit of a reality check for her! She had thought her singing was her strength as she has got a strong belt but although she received overall good feedback on her singing, they said she needed to improve her technique and confidence. In addition, they said to the group in general that bad breathing technique in singing was a red flag and they would mark them down in an audition. My question is surely that is what the professional course is for, teaching proper technique, etc? They always say they look for potential and trainability in auditions so I’m a bit confused. She’s currently at a PA 6th form college and getting singing teaching but obviously it’s not enough! Is this the level where foundations are generally offered rather than degrees?
I think that these days the competition is so strong that they are almost fully trained by the time they get on to a degree course. It’s really more about further development, depth of knowledge, adding onto a very solid base. That is why foundation courses now exist, to get students with ability up to the entry requirements for degree- raw ability will not get you onto a degree course (certainly not the top few colleges anyway). Depending on the 6th from college, they are not all equal, some are great, some are not worth the paper they are written on. Students also need to really perfect technique early on so they don’t develop bad habits and risk the health of their voice. It’s tough if students have a great sound in certain note ranges but have to go back and relearn so that they have a better range and stronger control.
My ds got his grade 8 singing at 15 but still went to EDA and learnt masses and now at GSA and still learning more and more about his voice. And to be fair, we all know it’s even harder for girls as there are so many more girls auditioning for the same number of spaces. The boys are just as talented they just have less competition.
Hilltop wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:01 pm
Hi, my DD has just attended the Italia Conti audition preparation course, which she enjoyed and found useful, but I think it was a bit of a reality check for her! She had thought her singing was her strength as she has got a strong belt but although she received overall good feedback on her singing, they said she needed to improve her technique and confidence. In addition, they said to the group in general that bad breathing technique in singing was a red flag and they would mark them down in an audition. My question is surely that is what the professional course is for, teaching proper technique, etc? They always say they look for potential and trainability in auditions so I’m a bit confused. She’s currently at a PA 6th form college and getting singing teaching but obviously it’s not enough! Is this the level where foundations are generally offered rather than degrees?
Tbh, with our personal experience have always found that a bit of a myth. So many people apply the schools can afford to take the cream of them. That's not to say they don't develop further with degree/diploma. I can already tell the difference within one half term with what DD has been taught on degree and she did 2 foundations first.
DD was working professionally as a scare actor when her boss asked for a word and told her she wasn't doing her breathing correctly (the shouting being the same as what she needed to do for singing to not damage her voice) and wanted to know why as she's already completed her first foundation (in addition she'd done drama classes from 10, private lessons from 14 and a PA 6th form) turns out DD knew the theory but hadn't realised she wasn't applying it. No one had picked it up. See it as an advantage that they've told her an area where she will be marked down against others applying. Does she have private lessons in addition to her 6th form, or can you talk to the singing teacher there and ask for this to be worked on.
38ta wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:07 pm
I’ve never managed to get my head round why the student is hit at both sides with the higher fees but then getting the lower loan amount. Even with the full loan amount it’s out of most people’s budget.
When we originally looked at all the different courses I’d said to ds no point applying to mountview /arts Ed etc but at his college they say audition then worry! He’s had friends get into these places this year with no ability to pay the extra but somehow managed to get funding through scholarships etc. No idea if they are means tested but if so we wouldn’t qualify but as they are so hard to get into anyway I’m not putting him off trying.
From previous posts on the subject, I believe it is because Arts and MV are classed as private Unis as their degrees are what they have created themselves. Private Unis you can only get student finance for tuition upto £6K regardless of how much the degree costs. Whereas other drama schools degrees have their degrees backed by a Uni so their tuition fees the student can get student finance for the full amount (upto £9250).
I know of 3 people that went to MW on Dadas (when they did them), person 1, it cost his parents a fortune, but they have a connected to the arts side hustle and did a few fund raisers that helped, person 2 had cheap lodgings via a family connection and also had a w/end job so managed, person 3 dropped out in the first year for several reasons, finances being one of them.
I told DD the first year she applied she could try for MV and Arts and in the event of her being successful (she wasn't) we'd look to see how financially viable it was but in the event of her doing a foundation (which she did) then she could only look at courses that were fully funded as the money was only there once.
Isn’t arts Ed through city of London university and mountview East anglia? The whole thing just confuses me!
I can't remember the whole details and the post/s will be buried in one of the training threads but it's definitely to do with the degree and why it is classed as a private course that means you can only get £6k student funding towards tuition costs.
Lawn is correct. At Artsed and MV the degrees are simply validated by the universities. They are free to create their own curriculum /syllabus and are not constrained by university requirements - hence differences like more contact hours, longer terms, different weighting between academic/vocational training. Applications are made direct and not through UCAS. It does give these colleges more freedoms - but for whatever govt reasoning you can't get a full student loan for the fees. (And it's also very expensive living near these colleges). GSA combine year groups to avoid additional MT fees, EDA charge around £3000 top up fees, Urdang has dropped their top up fees for their summer term. It's worth looking at every college individually and what their current position is. It changes every year! There are numerous bursary and scholarship schemes for ArtsEd (I assume for MV too) and they also give students links to local funding sources. We got funding through our local council in DDs first year, a bursary and internal award in DDs second year and this year she is also in receipt of an external award. I would say audition (but be upfront with your dc about affordability) and see what happens. This performing world is unpredicable. And regardless of the route it is by no means a cheap choice or lucrative career! But it's fun and can be very exciting! Good luck to all.
Hilltop wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:01 pm
Hi, my DD has just attended the Italia Conti audition preparation course, which she enjoyed and found useful, but I think it was a bit of a reality check for her! She had thought her singing was her strength as she has got a strong belt but although she received overall good feedback on her singing, they said she needed to improve her technique and confidence. In addition, they said to the group in general that bad breathing technique in singing was a red flag and they would mark them down in an audition. My question is surely that is what the professional course is for, teaching proper technique, etc? They always say they look for potential and trainability in auditions so I’m a bit confused. She’s currently at a PA 6th form college and getting singing teaching but obviously it’s not enough! Is this the level where foundations are generally offered rather than degrees?
DD just did Arts Ed week pre audition. She came out positive and enthusiastic, with lots of great advice. However, she was shocked at how little preparation some of the others on the course had done, no taped sheet music, doing songs that were total no nos. Yes there were some excellent dancers and singers, but nothing like the standard she saw in auditioning last year for BA courses. It’s made her more certain Foundation is right for her.
It's def worth making a spreadsheet of all the colleges that your DC is interested in and working out the funding. 2 years ago PPA charged a £1250 p.a top -up paid direct to the college. think that was in one chunk but not sure, so each can be different as already said.
I'm aware of someone who got offered Arts last year. They were only 17 when offered, huge excitement, but no more funding. Carried on auditioning and got thru to many 2nd and final rounds but no more offers, so the only one on the table was one that wasn't financially viable. Instead they did an audition and are now working as a character in Disney, so worked out for them just a different route taken.
Acting - through song is very good - singing, dance.
She’s concentrating on Foundations this time, but I think she should apply for BA too
So GSA is right up her street. Would she look at Mountview Foundation/degree, or does the cost rule it out? (It did for us!).
Have a look at Urdang. They are trying to shed their 'just for dancers' image and we know quite a few actor-singers there now.
Also, if acting is the biggest love, what about an Acting degree? My DS really enjoys MT, decided he was an actor first and foremost but his course involves plenty of movement, dance and singing, and being at GSA he's able to take extra singing and dance lessons too...
How much dance (and what style) and singing is there on the course in comparison to acting? Dd loves movement but if there’s too much dance and singing I’m not sure the course would be right for her (although I know acting courses do singing, I wasn’t aware of dance).
Ditzi don't worry, it's a proper acting course. The movement and singing they do is all about acting, not MT. They do singing for a couple of hours one morning, I believe, and something approaching actual dance on another day, and they need to be quite physical, but it's not what I call a tits and teeth course! My DS is doing extra, optional singing and dance because he enjoys MT and would like another string to his bow if possible, but the Acting course is very much for actors. I believe all acting degrees will do vocal and movement work - it's no more than the norm.
So GSA is right up her street. Would she look at Mountview Foundation/degree, or does the cost rule it out? (It did for us!).
Have a look at Urdang. They are trying to shed their 'just for dancers' image and we know quite a few actor-singers there now.
Also, if acting is the biggest love, what about an Acting degree? My DS really enjoys MT, decided he was an actor first and foremost but his course involves plenty of movement, dance and singing, and being at GSA he's able to take extra singing and dance lessons too...
How much dance (and what style) and singing is there on the course in comparison to acting? Dd loves movement but if there’s too much dance and singing I’m not sure the course would be right for her (although I know acting courses do singing, I wasn’t aware of dance).
Ditzi don't worry, it's a proper acting course. The movement and singing they do is all about acting, not MT. They do singing for a couple of hours one morning, I believe, and something approaching actual dance on another day, and they need to be quite physical, but it's not what I call a tits and teeth course! My DS is doing extra, optional singing and dance because he enjoys MT and would like another string to his bow if possible, but the Acting course is very much for actors. I believe all acting degrees will do vocal and movement work - it's no more than the norm.
Thanks for the replies to my Conti audition prep course post. Really useful. I think we have recognised for a while now that my DD would be very happy with a Foundation level course offer at any of the good colleges. Her PA 6th form college is good but it’s not up there with the likes of EDA or Arts Ed 6th forms (or even Arts1) and she definitely had a wobble and struggled with the covid lockdowns, which affected her motivation and put her back a bit. We have no idea what she will be offered tbh in the upcoming auditions as no one has, but something we have been discussing is the prospect of her doing a mid-tier college professional course followed by a top up year course somewhere else vs foundation followed by a better (although not guaranteed I know!) college professional course. I realise I’m completely speculating here because we have no idea what she will get offered (if anything!) but I just wondered what other peoples thoughts or experiences of these two routes where?
Gosh Hilltop, I can be of no help, but that’s an interesting thought - I had no idea you could do top ups like that.
H had her Arts1 audition today - completely different style from EDA as it was mainly workshop based. She would absolutely accept EDA if she were fortunate enough to be offered, but as a parent, Arts1 just felt hungrier, like they would want it more for her. And more like they wanted to nurture the whole person. I’m sure EDA do too, but Arts1 communicated it better to parents.
We we wait and keep our fingers firmly crossed for an offer from someone.
By top up do you mean a masters after a degree elsewhere? Again I believe you would need to audition and be offered a place. Unless you mean something else?
lawn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:26 pm
By top up do you mean a masters after a degree elsewhere? Again I believe you would need to audition and be offered a place. Unless you mean something else?
Hi Lawn, yes I’m not totally sure, I think a masters could be included in this and yes, you’d have to re audition. I’ve heard of a few situations - someone we know did a 3 year MT diploma at Conti then went to LSMT for their one year course, my DD met someone else on the IAB summer school this year who had done the 2 year accelerated MT degree course at ICMT and then was looking at the masters at IAB for further training, I also read on this forum that someone had done a MT degree at Chichester (I think) and then did a one year MT course at Associated Studios…
Also I think some people convert their diplomas into degrees but that I think may be a separate thing to what I’m discussing as my understanding is that that can be done online (I think!) and is mostly to just get that degree rather than further training per se
@Hilltop, by 'professional qualification' do you mean a diploma instead of a degree? I'm not an expert but I would think going for a reputable foundation with the aim of a really good school for degree afterwards might be a safer bet. But that's just my feeling. I don't know enough about diplomas, as the funding situation always seems so baffling and unpredictable.
biscuitsneeded wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:46 am
@Hilltop, by 'professional qualification' do you mean a diploma instead of a degree? I'm not an expert but I would think going for a reputable foundation with the aim of a really good school for degree afterwards might be a safer bet. But that's just my feeling. I don't know enough about diplomas, as the funding situation always seems so baffling and unpredictable.
Hi Biscuitsneeded, yeah I know what you mean, the funding is very confusing! Yes I mean a Level 6 diploma (on par with a degree).
Last edited by Hilltop on Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lawn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:26 pm
By top up do you mean a masters after a degree elsewhere? Again I believe you would need to audition and be offered a place. Unless you mean something else?
Hi Lawn, yes I’m not totally sure, I think a masters could be included in this and yes, you’d have to re audition. I’ve heard of a few situations - someone we know did a 3 year MT diploma at Conti then went to LSMT for their one year course, my DD met someone else on the IAB summer school this year who had done the 2 year accelerated MT degree course at ICMT and then was looking at the masters at IAB for further training, I also read on this forum that someone had done a MT degree at Chichester (I think) and then did a one year MT course at Associated Studios…
Also I think some people convert their diplomas into degrees but that I think may be a separate thing to what I’m discussing as my understanding is that that can be done online (I think!) and is mostly to just get that degree rather than further training per se
Do you know what the reason was behind someone doing a 3yr diploma at Conti and then the LSMT 1 year course?. The person you're thinking of from this forum did 3year diploma at The Hammond. They did a year course at Associated studios because the pandemic had affected training. IIRC the college didn't make it clear how progression into yr2 worked and it wasn't feasible for student to continue beyond yr1. IAB attracts no student loans due to being located outside of the UK. My daughter did summer school there this year btw and enjoyed the experience.
You're aware that those mentioned all need private funding?
