GCSE or BTEC

[lyndahill]

My DD is due to choose her options in summer term as they start them in Year 9. Her school only does BTec dance, which I have been told she will find easy. So I was thinking of putting her through GCSE dance at the college and paying for it. She can do it in one year and will free up another subject for to her take but don't want to be wasting our money if Btec dance will be as good for her as GCSE. Does anybody have any knowledge of the two. DD eventually hopes to go on to somewhere like Laines as she, like most on here, wants to perform and dance on stage and later on maybe do choreography. Thanks

[Caroline A-C]

Might be worth having a word with Laines to see what their requirements are. I am not sure how much clout a GCSE holds in dance. I would have thought that the standard achieved at independent dance classes would be more relevant. I know when ds applied for MT the audition was all that mattered. I think each college has a minimum entry requirement but it is what they see that is more important. If your dd loves dance then maybe it is a good idea to take the GCSE for her enjoyment. Also, at the end of the day it is another GCSE to add to the CV so can't see any negatives to doing it.

[paulears]

The thing to remember with GCSE and BTEC Level 2 (same Level) is that the standard is VERY low. What a local dance school offers is miles above this level. A Pass in BTEC or a D at GCSE is evidenced by people taking part, and attempting what has been set. Neither qualification mean somebody has an aptitude for dance. It is not until Level 3 qualifications that it starts to become what a typical dance school Principal would accept as proper dance. Years ago, there was a subject called movement studies - a much better description than dance. ISTD or the other 'proper' dance organisations hold much more kudos. GCSE and BTEC Level 2 dance were really popular for a while, but now much rarer again, because the importance the Government put on them waning a little.

My experience of this is that for somebody who is already a dancer, Level 2 is a breeze, and rapidly gets dull as much of each lesson is spent re-doing last weeks, because everyone has forgotten it. Progress is painfully slow, standards designed for beginners and the complexity very, very simple. The teachers will grab any real dance trained kids and use them as assistants. It's also likely that the teachers will be from the PE department, unless they're very lucky, so the dance often becomes aerobic in nature rather than artistic. Any Musical Theatre content tends to be black leotards, wooden chairs backwards and All that Jazz, done very badly.

When it was popular in my own area, they merged lots of schools for dance and appointed a real dance trained teacher to run it, and this worked rather well, but then the funding ran out, and in many schools it's back to the PE teachers!

[lotsolaffs]

I posted a similar query a while ago, I spoke to some 6th formers that had chosen it at school already for a GCSE and it was frustrating for them as they are all performers of some sort,, all felt that it was a waste of time, it was also taught by PE teachers at my daughter's school, Paulears' advice is good, she is doing drama and performing arts though

[Pearl]

Hi Lyndahill, my dd's school didn't offer any type of dance options!!! Luckily for us her dance school did GCSE dance and so she took it with her dance school, She didn't find it too challenging but she did enjoy it and I noticed a big improvement in her own choreography after doing the GCSE as they cover things like that. So it might be worth looking to see if any local dance schools do it rather than a college as she would more likely be with other dancers then rather than kids who don't have much dance experience.

As for colleges such as Laines we are just going through all this now as dd is year 11 and none of them are really interested in what GCSE you have it is all assessed on the audition day itself and not on what exams you have passed.

[lyndahill]

Thanks for your replies - the GCSE dance would be at Chichester College, so I can ask at the interview if a dance teacher or a PE teacher, teaches it.Chichester is classed as Outstanding so I would expect the teaching to be very good. The Btec at her school is taught by the PE teacher at the high school and she has already said that my DD would find it very easy and may get bored, saying that she would probably get an A in it.
DD does various dance classes and usually gets a distinction in the exams and is in the dance school's dance troupe. I don't want to find that despite being only in Year 9 and aged 13/14, she will be going over the same thing each week and therefore get bored and want to quit, when I'll have paid £350 for the course. The GCSE course is by interview because of her age and she will probably have to show her dance skills to get on to it. I just thought it would be good to have another GCSE behind her.

[woody]

The dance department at Chichester College has quite a good reputation, so I hear, so the GCSE dance course is far more likely to be taught by a 'proper' dance teacher!

As others have said, the vocational schools/colleges aren't really interested in GCSE dance as a qualification, and I've never come across one that has it as a requirement. Usually for entry at 16 they ask for something like 5 GCSE's at C or above including English and Maths.

There's quite a lot of choreography in the GCSE so it might be worth doing for that, and it is mostly 'contemporary' in style.

[paulears]

The trouble is that the choreography has to cope with the lowest level pupil - I've never found any GCSE arts programmes streamed, which would be such a good idea, but uneconomical to do. Indeed on the teacher front, if they have a sixth form performing arts department, there's no guarantee they have the same teacher at GCSE. Movement, as a title is perhaps more suitable than dance. If they have an excellent dancer, as a teacher it will be streets ahead dance wise, but grades may not reflect this because the top grade standard is low, and often focussed on criteria that have non-dance terms in it. So taking part is in the bottom end, taking part with 'enthusiasm' might be middle ground, and then taking part and working on their own initiative can be in the top grades. I can do practically every discipline in Performing Arts, on stage and off - apart from dance. Many good dancers believe anyone can dance to a degree. Last year I did some work with the strictly people - mainly management stuff, and CRH told me "anyone can dance, Daaaarling". Ten minutes later, he concluded he was totally wrong and I was simply dreadful, with no coordination whatsoever - which is absolutely right. I know the terms, the styles, the footwork, the history, even - but I can't even do a hand jive! So I've verified work for BTEC quite happily, but could I do it myself? No. The trouble is, I could probably get a Merit in BTEC and a B or C in GCSE, because the criteria don't have strict dance requirements in them. One PE teacher I came across meant I blocked her entire group from certification because she thought Jazz Dance was dancing to Jazz music, so were doing fitness centre dancing -all aerobic in nature to Duke Ellington. She had heard of Bob Fosse, but even Jazz hands were a mystery. At that time it hadn't occured to BTEC to actually explain what a unit was about, assuming everyone would know - but they don't.

Good news is chichester are not new to this, so I've personally never heard a bad word said about them.

Ask specific questions at the interview. Here are some good ones.

How many individual dance pieces will they work on over the course length? It is very common to take ages to do one. Once school did one 3 minute dance in a year!
Do they get the chance to perform the piece in concerts, shows or presentations to people outside the department. Showing your dance to year 9 is NOT performing.
Check what equipment they need - especially boys. If they don't need any footwear, just bare feet - ask why? Same with leotards or boy's baggies.
Do they have shower facilities? May sound stupid, but if they dance, they sweat, and walking around all day smelly seems rather common. The PE departments often do, but not dance and drama. 30 kids all spraying cheap deodorant is horrible.
Do they have proper dance floor? Bare feet on cord or tufted carpet is very unkind on the feet. If the dance studio is an ordinary GP classroom, it is also full of obstacles.
You could also ask (in advance) to see some work from previous years - this will be proudly avalable, or unavailable due to data protection law - draw your own conclusion.

However - they questions will firmly identify you as potential trouble.

My sons are both in their twenties now, but I firmly remember being called up to see the music teacher because he was doodling on his GCSE music composition and not taking it seriously. He showed me the score and said "see!" Mike's a drummer, rather a good one, and had been having lessons for years - he's much better at drum music than me. So I looked at the teacher, then the music and said - well it goes, bum diddly, bum, duh duh, twiddly dum, de dum, bum, bum, didly. The teacher said he didn't know drum music could be written down like that. He said he'd get somebody from outside the school to remark his course work.

None of this is stuff OFSTED are interested in - mainly because their own specialisms are weak in many areas, and it's often luck if an inspector actually understands the subject. For what they do, it's unimportant.

Creativity, so badly needed in arts subjects, gets removed by head teachers keen to not take risks, so it becomes boring.

Kids would, in my view, learn just as much from Black Adder Goes Forth than they would from War Horse.