Mum without a clue

[Hecouldshine]

Thanks for the link katy. Looks really interesting. Unfortunately dcs are performing that w/e but I will keep checking for another opportunity.

The whole academic vs performing thing is sooooo difficult. I think it depends whether your daughter wants to perform using her dance, whether in musical theatre, or as a dancer. If so then time is against her spending much time on academic subjects from 6th form onwards. I think the route can include A levels so long as she is dancing at a high level alongside them. We have had the debate on here of "can my dd go to medical school and do musical theatre training after if she changes her mind?" The answer is probably no - as she doesn't have time to keep up the singing and dance training while studying medicine (I'm a medic). BUT she could do it the other way round - do medicine as a mature student after trying musical theatre. Similarly there has been a thread on ballet.co.uk doing dance section recently about the poor choice of GCSEs or a levels at vocational training schools that offer classical ballet training. But Mums have pointed out that girls have caught up what they needed and gone onto medical school after leaving these schools - but you can't do it the other way round as a dancer's body needs training early and only has a limited number of years performing in it. UGGGHHH! That sounds awful, doesn't it If she is more drama orientated then a uni degree is perfectly possible, with performing afterwards - although I get the impression that a drama college course is better regarded - but then that COULD be done after the degree (if she could afford it!)

Not sure what Welsh Mum's dd did for 6th form, but I hope she won't mind me posting that she is the Head of a Sixth form -so she went through this whole academic vs performing thing for her dd. It's difficult to get your head round when you are an academic/studying Mum and don't have a performing arts background yourself. I have no idea whether my dcs will be academic or performers as they are capable of being either. I just educate myself about all the pathways on here!

Have fun with the ballet persuasion

[Welsh Mum]

Sensible words HCS

I think the whole "academic v voactional" debate largely depends upon your own child - it is an individual choice with no absolute rights and wrongs of either pathway. Coming from a very academic background and family I found my DDs decision not to do A levels difficult to come to terms with. She is a very brigyt girl who had excellent GCSE results. However, she was adamant that she wanted to do Performing Arts BTEC. Luckily the college near us has an excellent reputation in this, so she went ahead. She really enjoyed the course and even I could see the benefits for her - she had loads of help and guidance for her drama college auditions, lots of practical experience, and this made the keeping up with her dance/acting/singing while also being in eduaction easier to handle. She is now so pleased she did it as a good prepartion for her present course. I must say I also thought that if she did not like the BTEC then voactional drama training was not for her! (However, this did not happen ). Some from her BTEC course decided to go into teaching etc and they had no trouble getting into uni with good BTEC results.

My DD thinks that she has found the transition to vocational training easier than if she had done A levels - BUT this is not to say that this would work for everyone. The same goes for vocational training at post 18 - there are many talented actors who went to uni first then into acting. However, the cost would be huge doing in effect 2 qualifcations. Hate to think of that level of student loan repayments as an actor!!

If our Dd decides dance is what she wants to do then I agree that the window is far smaller than for actors/singers. Professional dancers need to styart training far earlier. As for the ballet, then if she wants to do dance I agree take it up again. However, if she wants to do MT then the level she has larady achived may be enough. For many reasons my DD only did ballet up to grade 3 (though she did lots of other dance) and she got places on 3 good MT courses.

Its good to start thinking of all this early - you are right its a huge learning curve and as a parent I felt I needed to be up to speed on everything in order to support my DD choices.

[islandofsodor]

Perversley my dh who teaches in some of the leading MT colleges is very keen for dd to follow the academic A level route whilst continuing her dance/voice/drama training outside of school. I said that when the time comes if she wants to do the BTEC performing arts route she should leave school but travel to Manchester to do it at a better college but he was totally against that idea even though the college is very good.

However he then feels that for those seriously entering the profession the vocational route is best. Hos college for example offers a degree in Dane and theatre, a foundation degree in acting (with an MT emphasis) and a professional diploma in musical theatre. In his opinion (and it is only his opinion) the diploma is the best preparation for the profession however funding is difficult for that course whereas the degrees are funded in the same way as uni (most of the vocational colleges are linked to unis so they can offer degrees.

Friends who are actors however often advocate going to uni first, gaining some life experience then doing a postgrad at drama school but time is more on thier side and often drama schools don't like to take students too young.

[islandofsodor]

sorry I meant for those serious about the profession the vocational route after a levels is best rather than uni.

[Katymac]

She is dance, followed by music/singing, followed by drama; I think

But her dance is very varied

I have so much to learn

[Welsh Mum]

Perversley my dh who teaches in some of the leading MT colleges is very keen for dd to follow the academic A level route whilst continuing her dance/voice/drama training outside of school. I said that when the time comes if she wants to do the BTEC performing arts route she should leave school but travel to Manchester to do it at a better college but he was totally against that idea even though the college is very good.

As I said, there are no "right" answers, just what is right for each one. It also depends how strongly the individual wants to do a particular course. I could never have forced a course on my DD . I suppose its also a different perspective actually doing a course rather than teaching on it. My Dd has just observed that those who did A levels have found the approach VERY different in vocational training - they have adapted of course, but for the the advantage has been that she fitted in much more easily to the style of teaching involved.As an A level teacher myself, I can also see that a levels are useful if you decide not go down the vocational route or not to go into a performing career at all.

As for going to uni first i think that funding 3 years of an academic degree, followed by full acting training will be FAR too expensive a route in the future - many of those who followed such a route did so before the new fees etc. If you did that in the future your total loan in fees alone would be almost £60,000 As well as living costs for 6 years

I also feel that although some acting colleges like "life experience" this can be achieved by some on a gap year, rather than 3 yrs in uni.

One thing i would advise your Dd to do (if she hasn't already0 is music theory to grade 5 standard. Very useful for singers.

[Katymac]

She is very unimpressed at the more drama & ballet

But was quite interested in the 'teaching dance'

We are 'discussing' things

[TotallycluelessMum]

Have been catching up with this thread with interest...especially the academic/vocational dilemma. DD is only 14, so plenty of time to hum and ha about this....but DH is VERY determined that dd goes down the uni route, followed by post-grad in musical theatre, as that is what she would love to do.
His argument is that at his uni there were loads of drama groups, revues, etc etc so there were plenty of opportunities to perform and to meet people that may be producing/writing/financing stuff in the future (and of course you have.'something to fall back on' )
I'm a medic and had a full timetable but I know on other courses there was plenty of time between lectures( often days! ) to take dance classes etc.
Would be interested to hear whether doing a one year post-grad Mt course would put you at a huge disadvantage compared to those who've done the three year course (apart from all the money of course!!??)

[islandofsodor]

I think you have to be quite blunt with her Katy - if West End type musical theatre is the way your dd wants to go then she MUST do ballet. I know several fantastic performenrs who didn't necessarily enjoy ballet but they saw it as a necessary eans to an end.

If your dd was more drama inclined then it wouldn't matter quite so much as long as she was gdoing maybe jazz or musical theatre style dance she could go as an actor singer.

It might seem harsh but its all very well saying she wants to perform - she has to know what is involved.

My dd is only 9 years old and I do hold her back comapred to what some kids at her dance school do but her schedule is likethis

Monday 30 mins piano
Tuesday 45 mins ballet 45 mins tap, 45 mins modern theatre dance
Wednesday School Choir
Friday 30 mins group music theory & aural
Saturday 1 hour drama, 1 hour jazz/modern dance 1 hour group singing at Stagecoach plus 30 mins individual LAMDA drama tuition

She will start individual singing lessons when she is a little older

These are the children your dd will be competing against for places at uni/college

[Welsh Mum]

There are some excellent Post Grad MT courses - Mary Hammond at the Royal Academy of Music for example. So it is certainly a viable route. These are one year so only an extra £9,000 However, getting onto them is also very competitive so you are right, your DD would have to work hard at keeping her skills and experience up. This would depend on the subject at UNI, some have more "free" time than others though you must remember this only means it is non contact time, there is lots of work such as reading, writing essays, dissertations etc that have to be done in notionally "free" time.

Again I think that It is down to individuals. I sometimes think i have very headstrong DDs as neither my DH or myself could have persuaded either of them to change their mind regarding courses, uni etc (I include my academic, uni attending Dd in this ). Once my Dd had decided that she wanted to go to drama college, I can't see we would have ever changed her mind. Perhaps I have just had stubborn kids

[TotallycluelessMum]

[quote="Welsh Mum"] This would depend on the subject at UNI, some have more "free" time than others though you must remember this only means it is non contact time, there is lots of work such as reading, writing essays, dissertations etc that have to be done in notionally "free" time.

Lol....most of our independent study time was used up in the pub or watching 'Neighbours' but I think it's all a bit competitive nowadays!

Thanks for that Welsh Mum, I think it's great that your dcs are determined and know what they want...DD still very much wants to keep everyone happy...but I'm sure hormones and maturity may change that over the next few years!

[Caroline A-C]

Although they say they are looking for "trainability" at audition for musical theatre, obviously with the enormous competition (over 1,300 auditioning for 45 places at one college), you still need to have some dance training and ballet is by far the best to go for, so taking ballet lessons whilst at uni could easily be done.

[islandofsodor]

Dh's best friend did the RAM MT course with Mary Hammond several years ago. It was very good (Myleene Klass was in his year incidentally) but it was competitive to get onto. He had previously done 4 years classical vocational training at music college.

And it took him ages to get out of debt.

[TotallycluelessMum]

Hmmmm....she'd better start practising then and we'd better start saving !!!

Mum without a clue....a girl at DD's drama group decided at 16 that she wanted to do musical theatre, at that stage she hadn't really danced much...started ballet, worked really hard and got into Milleneum and Conti's, she is now at Milleneum and doing very well.

It's never too late, especially for someone with your dd's talent and training

[Welsh Mum]

This would depend on the subject at UNI, some have more "free" time than others though you must remember this only means it is non contact time, there is lots of work such as reading, writing essays, dissertations etc that have to be done in notionally "free" time.

Lol....most of our independent study time was used up in the pub or watching 'Neighbours' but I think it's all a bit competitive nowadays!

Thanks for that Welsh Mum, I think it's great that your dcs are determined and know what they want...DD still very much wants to keep everyone happy...but I'm sure hormones and maturity may change that over the next few years!

Yes I think uni is more competitive now - as it costs so much youngsters want to get the most out of it, and also the jobs market is very competitive as well. My DD has lots of reading and essays to do, some count towards her final degree so can't be rushed. You can't get away with missing deadlines either!! (which used to happen in my day).

Yes my 2 have always been determined - eldest decided when she was 18 she wanted to go and work in an orphanage in South America for her gap year We were not happy but she financed it and planned it herself! Whenever I complain about them being about them being headstrong my DH raises his eyebrows, looks at me and says in a very sarcastic voice "Mmmm - wonder where they get THAT from?"