A remark from a TV and Film Director

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pg
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A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by pg »

I was at a workshop recently and thought I would pass on a remark from a TV/Film Director which was made in passing - but made me think of discussions on NAPM.

This was a director who has been working in the business for over 30 years - so loads of experience.

We were discussing how actors have to try to get back to the ability to "play" - to undo the social conditioning, to get out of their own way, to go back to being simple.

He remarked how he rather despaired of the "preparation" and training provided for children and how it so often had the opposite effect of what was required. This was just his perception and opinion of course, but I thought it was worth passing on.

His wish was that children were never "coached" before auditions. He didn't care if anyone forgot their lines during auditions. He found that those children who had done very little performing often came across particularly well in castings for film and TV - because they didn't "perform".
begolina
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by begolina »

Thanks pg for the insight. For what he says he personally prefers the raw talent in a performing child. It would be interesting to check from his past productions if he did actually cast complete beginners or if in the end he did cast trained children (if he ever had to cast children).
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Irishdancer »

PG when my 2 dc where young they where very lucky got a lot of work, time and time again directors told me that they got a lot of work because they where natural actors was advised me not to let them do too much drama coaching, all they did was 9 private drama lessons a year for Lamda exam and a few festivals when they where with the drama teacher she asked them how they thought the piece they where learning should go so they had input. When they had to learn lines I only got them to learn the lines did not tell them to do the directions in the script as most directors will change that did not over practice it as then it dose not look natural. I was told that directors wanted a child that they could mould so that they could direct the child the way they wanted to if a parent has directed a child it much harder to undo it. Me myself don't think these work shops CD do for children are not good only Confuses the child adults it's a different matter as they get a lot out of them. Children who might go into casting and not really think about it but if they have done one of the work shops might think CD told me to do it this way so go in to the casting not being them selfs
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Irishdancer »

PG when my 2 dc where young they where very lucky got a lot of work, time and time again directors told me that they got a lot of work because they where natural actors was advised me not to let them do too much drama coaching, all they did was 9 private drama lessons a year for Lamda exam and a few festivals when they where with the drama teacher she asked them how they thought the piece they where learning should go so they had input. When they had to learn lines I only got them to learn the lines did not tell them to do the directions in the script as most directors will change that did not over practice it as then it dose not look natural. I was told that directors wanted a child that they could mould so that they could direct the child the way they wanted to if a parent has directed a child it much harder to undo it. Me myself don't think these work shops CD do for children are not good only Confuses the child adults it's a different matter as they get a lot out of them. Children who might go into casting and not really think about it but if they have done one of the work shops might think CD told me to do it this way so go in to the casting not being them selfs
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Panda »

That's a really interesting post, thanks pg. I personally think its difficult because although the Directors might want that CDs obviously want to look good to Directors when they send in their audition tapes so they often insist everything is off book etc. This means the child has to be coached/encouraged at home, at least on the lines, but then perhaps goes into the audition more worried about if they will remember the lines than perhaps being the person so how can we get a happy medium? :-(
pg
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by pg »

I think learning the lines is a good idea!

I'm sure he didn't mean "don't learn the lines". What he meant (and what I agree with as someone who has been on the CD/Director's side of the table) is that learning the lines and being word-perfect is not what gets the job. If you are word perfect - and you come across entirely naturally and seem to be the sort of actor it would be easy to work with - then you're likely to do very well. If you are not absolutely word perfect - but you have the other attributes - it won't necessarily count you out. Sometimes an actor who is not word perfect will still be preferable to one that is.

If it's a tape being sent to the director and you seem to be the kind of actor the CD thinks would do well, then they will help you - allowing you two or three "goes" at it if required. Obviously, if you have no clue, are not familiar with the material, can't get the words out on camera because of nerves - then you will do yourself no favours - and that tape isn't likely to get as far as the director...

An occasional slip up is really unlikely to matter much - if you otherwise have what it takes.

What is off-putting is someone who has learned something in a certain way - having been coached - and can't be free with the material, as Irishdancer talks about in her post.

Film and TV acting needs people to "be", not "act". Many children do this entirely naturally - with no hang-ups. The best support (the sort that I'm sure lots of parents give their children) is just that: support, not coaching. The best teachers will do this too, but I think teaching should be helping people to work out what they can do as actors and how they can improve - not teaching someone to do a speech.

Children who have done a lot of screen acting do often get cast - but then those children have learned about the demands of screen acting and understand what to do in a screen audition (and they have the evidence available that they can "do it", so they present very little risk). They are unlikely to come across as "coached" - in fact they probably haven't been, not for that particular audition. I do think that the search for "uncoached" children is one of the reasons that CDs scour schools and clubs - as well as getting submissions from agents.

What the director was probably referring to was simply those who are used to stage - and haven't learned the demands of screen. They then may have been "helped" to prepare by others who also don't understand the demands of screen. The demands of screen don't require you to project, or "show" or enunciate or entertain. Those who have done very little performing won't have any idea that those things often are required (for the stage) so they won't shoot themselves in the foot by doing them in a TV or Film audition.
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by napmfm »

I think this is very common with many CD's and directors but they can see through all the training and over acting, I don't think it holds a child back but they may have to be prepared to un learn what they have learnt.

My DD used to do LAMDA speech and drama with school when she was little, it was all about over emphasising and over acting, she'd come home and sound ridiculous but would score well in exams, needless to say we binned it. Same can also be said for singing, when we were offered a Les MIs audition her singing teacher spent a lesson singing Castle on a Cloud, she sang it beautifully but nothing like how it should be sang on stage, I've have also spoken to other puzzled mums about why their great singers we not cast in the role they wanted and they all sung it too trained.
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by obsteve »

<<He found that those children who had done very little performing often came across particularly well in castings for film and TV - because they didn't "perform".>>

Very true :)

The only criteria for me, is that the actor can "behave truthfully under imaginary circumstances"

Sometimes you see young people have been taught to forcus on interesting facial expressions and vocal intonations, which sometimes makes me wonder who on earth still teaches in this puppeteering way.

Sometimes those who are acquainted with performing know "what works", so will trot that out rather than imagine themselves in the given circumstances provided.

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nextinline
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by nextinline »

I think every casting director has an idea of what they are looking for for each role and it is so different each time you cannot second guess it so it is best to be yourself. Children often do better in a lot of things without too much adult/parent intervention. Each audition is an experience and opportunity to have a go and then it is just what the casting director is looking for that day. I have never worked out any pattern at all as to when my kids have got through some auditions and not others. They often don't get ones I thought were more likely and get ones I thought were a long-shot. It is not personal being turned down for a part and nothing to do with talent; I guess the casting director just has to find the right person for the role. In my experience they never try and make a child fit the role but will turn down multiple people to keep searching for the right one.
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Irishdancer »

Nextinline you are right as I said in my post in casting and auditions for the sky Atlantic program they picked another boy and where trying to change the parents mind but looks like they are looking again but having trouble finding what they wanted looking for the same as they saw in the other boy so having trouble choosing. Every casting CD are looking for different things so going in and not being yourself you might lose out. CD/director see some thing and the some times they really don't know until some one walks through the door dose not matter how talented the others are they just see what they want in that one person
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by admin »

I would endorse the experiences of PG and othere here. None of my children had any formal acting lessons and by childrens standards went on to gain many childrens acting roles. They went to castings dressed as they felt comfortable. One of the nicest roles one was cast in came about from turning up muddy after a rugby match and still in PE kit and having only skimmed the lines concentrating on the intentions not the words. Likewise for his lead role in another film he turned up with a skateboard under his arm and did an improv that when he described it to me sounded so off the wall I was gobsmacked when he got the recall. Both the director and producer said what they saw was the essence of the character they were casting, words were irrelevant.

I have also heard from very well known casting directors that children who train for theatre often have trouble with film and television because they sometimes have difficulty realising they dont need to project to the back of the room and they need to keep things small and real. Theatre parents dont chew my head off for that comment its just someones viewpoint! Truth be told my kids couldnt have ever stood on a stage and commanded a theatre because they didnt know how so it could just be horses for courses.

Personally I think directors often choose youngsters that have ressonance for them, i.e. the child looks like someone they know or even their own children but thats just my perceptions.
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Irishdancer »

Admin I agree with you my 24 ds when he was younger he got a lot of work then he stopped agent got a call from CD to say what on earth has happened to T turned out he had been doing a lot of festavels and his Lamda exam so was projecting to the back of the room and making big moves so had to tell him to bring it down after that he started again. My 2 ds would never get big roles on stage as they where TV film actors. It's very hard to tell a child to change what they have been doing for years so that is one of the reasons some children get filming work and some get stage.
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Re: A remark from a TV and Film Director

Post by Flosmom »

admin wrote: children who train for theatre often have trouble with film and television because they sometimes have difficulty realising they dont need to project to the back of the room and they need to keep things small and real.
You are absolutely right. Flo had to forget everything she had learnt about acting when she moved from stage to screen.

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