Stage article - too many drama school places

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Hecouldshine
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Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by Hecouldshine »

I've always admired Susan Elkin's writing. She says it like it is. Not sure what to make of the ethnic minority bit but the rest makes sense - way too many graduates. Heart breaking but true.

http://www.thestage.co.uk/columns/educa ... -students/
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Welsh Mum
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by Welsh Mum »

I agree - the market is contracting, but there are increasing numbers of talented, trained actors chasing too few jobs :(

Very tough getting jobs after training ends. This is referred to in training but not the harsh realities spelt out [-X [-X

I like the way she does not mince her words, and the comments are worth a read as well.
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begolina
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by begolina »

Totally agree with the article. tbh what I do with the children in terms of theatre/singing/dancing is for me a very important part of their education and I really like the idea of all these new 'adventures' that they can experiment and that they will treasure for life (and this is the way I present it to them).

From my experience of students films, where the adults actors were very well trained, very good and very talented (and very underpaid) working with people that often didn't know what they were doing (the article talks about actors, what about the hundreds of directors coming out from Universities every year?), I decided that my children have to be truely amazing and show me that they can survive in this industry before they can go to a performing arts FE (which is at the moment Plan B). In the meantime they are working hard at school towards a different Plan A.
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TotallycluelessMum
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by TotallycluelessMum »

An interesting/depressing read! It seems tough enough just getting a place at Drama school but after graduation it seems the real problems start!
My DD would be applying in September and we are all in agonies about the best plan for her...Drama school or Uni (she's quite academic) and a post grad in acting or MT.
It's a head/heart dilemma. ](*,) :-({|=
May get her to read this article.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by begolina »

Hope my post doesn't sound to depressing too, TotallycluelessMum. It is also true that there are lots of undergraduates in all different professions without a job and with the debt built up during the University's years. I suppose the best bet it is to follow the talent whichever it is and hope for the best (in case, it is always possible to retrain with a short course in something specific later on)
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by TotallycluelessMum »

Not just your post Begolina, the whole article 8-[

You're right, huge numbers of clever graduates with no jobs too.

<Adopts wavery Scottish accent> We're all doomed!
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by begolina »

We're all doomed!
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by pg »

It does make sense - I don't think anyone really appreciates just how hard it is to get work until they are actually trying to get it!

Like Hecouldshine though I feel rather :? about the remarks about male/ethnic minority/ foreign students. I'd love to see her spreadsheet on it. I wonder whether it is based on anything more than an "impression"? I think the suggested correlation between gender/ethnicity and patchy performance is suspect. I do think that the schools look out for "different" - and that they are keen to see more males and more ethnic minority students and try to reach out to students who are not in the very large group of young white females from reasonably affluent backgrounds. However, I'm not even aware of the "tick boxes" she mentions - and I wonder exactly what she means by it. All the schools will have equal opportunity monitoring forms - but I'm not aware of them getting more money because they have a specific number of students from any particular group - they will aim for inclusivity - yes - but positive discrimination? I'd like to see the evidence for it. Of course, foreign students will bring money with them - but she wouldn't necessarily be aware of who they are at a showcase in any case.

I'm also not personally aware of a patchy skill set from any particular "group". In my experience (admittedly I haven't seen the same number of showcases as she has) there are strengths and weaknesses across the spectrum.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by ruby95 »

Agree -found the remarks about ethnic minorities offensive.

One problem that I have with drama school admissions is that I heard (and correct me if i'm wrong) that in general 5 times as many girls apply as boys but many schools have a policy of accepting 50% of each gender which I think is very unfair. Surely it should either be proportional to applicants or gender should be excluded as a criteria? Everyone knows its much harder to make it as a woman in this industry as it is - don't see why there needs to be this extra hurdle right from the beginning!
Last edited by ruby95 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by ruby95 »

My DD would be applying in September and we are all in agonies about the best plan for her...Drama school or Uni (she's quite academic) and a post grad in acting or MT. It's a head/heart dilemma
Totallycluelessmum I had the same dilemma last year. Your welcome to PM if you want
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by pg »

ruby95 - BOV take more males than females - to reflect the way casting tends to go in the industry :(

I don't think it is realistic or sensible for schools to aim train more women than men to reflect the number of applicants (although in some schools the women do sometimes outnumber the men in the year - they did in mine). This would not serve the industry or the students. There are more acting jobs for men than there are for women - and the gap increases as actors get older. That fact is hugely frustrating and unfair - but the problem won't be solved by training more female actors. It would just mean that there were more women out of work. It might be solved by more women running theatres, writing plays, commissioning programmes, writing screenplays, becoming producers etc - or by persuading those who currently have influence to include more roles for women to more accurately represent society.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by Flosmom »

pg wrote:the problem... might be solved by more women running theatres, writing plays, commissioning programmes, writing screenplays, becoming producers etc - or by persuading those who currently have influence to include more roles for women to more accurately represent society.
Hear hear!

Deb x
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by ruby95 »

PG - I completely get what you're saying and it does make a lot of sense. For the sake of the industry as a whole it would be mad to train more women than men, so for this purpose the drama schools are being very sensible. And agree that the biggest problem is getting more female roles written.

But on an individual to individual basis I think lots of young women are disadvantaged by this. The fact is that in this industry if you have a drama school education you have a better chance of being seen for things than if you don't and women currently have to be at least 5 times as good as their male to peers to get said education.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by pg »

It's an interesting question. I'm going to try to find out a bit more about the statistics. I think it's more subtle/nuanced than your numbers imply.

I don't think it is as many as 5 to 1 - certainly not for straight acting courses. When I was auditioning I wasn't even aware of the women outnumbering the men (though they may have done). I know that MT tends to have a lot more female than male applicants.

It's important to remember that you are not in competition with the men. You don't have to be 5 times as good as the male applicants - you have to better than the majority of the female applicants (if the school IS aiming for gender parity and isn't just taking those they perceive to be the most talented/promising).

The men are competing for places against the other men.

The perceived "best" or "interesting" men get in and the perceived "best" or "interesting" women get in.

In my year at OSD there were 5 men and 13 women. I think that shows that OSD at least would not fill places with less able students for the sake of gender parity. As far as I am aware that was a very unusual imbalance - they would normally aim for half and half I think. It may well be that the imbalance happens once reserve places start being offered and refused/accepted - and they perhaps had men on their reserve list being offered places elsewhere (though that's a guess).

That imbalance actually made things rather difficult. I think the girls are disadvantaged by being in the majority in a year when it comes to casting and showcasing their abilities to employers.
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Re: Stage article - too many drama school places

Post by ruby95 »

Very interesting points PG. And yes - need to know the actual statistics to properly discuss this! :D
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