Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

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StartingLate
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Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by StartingLate »

Ok, so BTEC Level 3 offer in-hand (a really good one which DD would love!!) Holding out for offer on Diploma Level 6.

Dad is saying won’t stop you, but really really unenthusiastic about DD not perusing education. Mom (me) would also prefer DD continues education and to re-applies in 2 years time. But will be supportive of DDs decision. DD has her heart set on dance. Parents see the uncertainty of arts in these times and would like her to have a plan B.

Any tips for mom and dad in this position??!
Grace03
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by Grace03 »

My daughter is just finishing a btec in performing arts.
She considered a diploma at age 16 but financially it would have been very difficult.

Doing a btec does open up the option of a plan B. When we went to her college open day in year 11 we met students who had offers to study dance / MT but we also met a student going on to do fashion design and one going to do primary education along with a couple doing drama with a plan to teach.

For us the btec was the compromise as she got to study what she loves but with qualifications she could use if it didn’t work out or if she changed her mind (she hasn’t changed her mind and is starting an MT degree in September).

So really what I’m saying is you don’t have to choose between academics or performing arts - it is possible at 16 to keep bother options open
amo185
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by amo185 »

We also had the same discussions as DD was considered academic and deep down I'd always thought she'd do three A Levels and head off to uni - sort of normal pathway. And that was her dad's preferred route. But she had other plans and passions and is now in her second year of an outstanding BTEC worth three A levels. He did encourage her to get the best GCSEs she could, sort of to prove to a future employer that she didn't choose the BTEC because she was not capable of A levels. The result is a great set of GCSEs, on track for Distinctions for BTEC and one degree offer in the bag which has kept dad happy! (She may prefer to do a Diploma if she gets funding as she can convert to a degree later). The academic students can still shine on a BTEC and, unless the school or local area can provide excellent drama/music/dance training, it may well be the best choice to keep future options open - whether that is vocational training or a more academic degree. We were advised against a diploma at 15/16 as DD is into musical theatre rather than just dance and were told of the benefits of training later when the voice has matured more. Plus she was part of an excellent part time performance troupe with which she was able to continue during BTEC 1. It seems to have worked for DD so far. Good luck and enjoy the ride (with dad on board hopefully!)x
islandofsodor
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by islandofsodor »

It is pursuing education.

My daughter is in her final L6 Diploma year and is solying straight to 3 MA courses. Or she could do the degree top up. The degree top up opens opportunities in teaching and a variety of arts related courses.

A L3 Btec is the equivalent of 3 A levels. Now granted she’s not going to be able to do a maths or science degree with a Btec Performing Arts but education, drama, business, marketing, media, sound etc etc degrees plus many I haven’t thought of, will all be options.
Dancecrazy
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by Dancecrazy »

Yes my husband was initially very unthuasiastic as we’re a family of very boring conventional occupations doctors, lawyers , accountants etc .
He finally came around when he saw she was serious and prepared to put the work in .
We’re prepared to give it a chance though not 100% convinced that it’s a viable career option long term especially with the events of the last 12 months .
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icantdance
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by icantdance »

Dancecrazy wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:00 am Yes my husband was initially very unthuasiastic as we’re a family of very boring conventional occupations doctors, lawyers , accountants etc .
He finally came around when he saw she was serious and prepared to put the work in .
We’re prepared to give it a chance though not 100% convinced that it’s a viable career option long term especially with the events of the last 12 months .
Yes, but you never know. And you wouldn't want your DC regretting not having tried it. DS is doing the degree next year. He went for the diploma 2 years ago, had 2 offers with DaDas but ultimately decided he wasn't mature enough to leave home at 16 and stayed for A levels, but he is very academic. He could do something more academic but he wants to be on stage. At least if he tries and fails he'll never have any regrets. But if he didn't do that he'd always wonder "what if". What they do now doesn't define their lives... We can all move into other directions as we grow older, and I most certainly have.
StartingLate
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by StartingLate »

Thanks all for your replies 😊

Something that complicates it somewhat for us is that we are in Ireland, where pretty much everyone stays in secondary school until 18/19 and sits the Leaving Cert. And any plan B job would require Leaving Cert or Degree.

But her best change of getting on a dance degree is doing the BTEC. And with a degree she could switch to another degree when she is older, if she ever wanted.
If she stays in school she will need to work very hard and won’t be able to spend as much time on her dancing, which may reduce her chances. But she will also be 2 years older and maybe that extra maturity would also benefit her dancing.

If she gets accepted in a diploma it makes the decision easier, as that is a more sure path into degree course.

I definitely hope she gives it a shot, either now or in 2 years time. Life is so much better if you love what you do.
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dancelifemum
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by dancelifemum »

It's a difficult one as DD had the choice to do a btec at a college to dance/MT or to stay at school and do her A levels and continue her dance training in the evenings and weekends. For us that worked best as it will give her other options later in life and maybe show she isn't just knowledgable about dance plus the 'normal' social life and sixth form experience. Her friend chose the btec dance but is now struggling to get degree/diploma offers from the main colleges and now she maybe limited to other career options. That is just one scenario though as hopefully they'll all be massively successful in the performing arts and get to follow their chosen career path. :D

I am intrigued why at 18 some still choose diploma over degree? just curious really as most now offer the degree option with finance and it gives a higher qualification if dance/MT doesn't work out? Plus the funding issue....I am just curious really. Obviously at an audition nobody will care which qualification they have. But if you're doing 3 years anyway at 18 the degree choice just seems the obvious choice.....or maybe there is a reason I am missing?
Interested....as a diploma so for us moves it down the list and maybe we are wrong to do so!! It seems unlikely many will bother converting it at a later date too....
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anastasia79
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by anastasia79 »

For us Dancelifemum (my DD is 17 in her final year of 6th form) we considered and have applied for both options. Yes the degree gives them the security of financing their course but in some cases it can mean slightly less dance contact hours than the diploma. She’s had both a degree/diploma option at Performers and when I’ve looked at their term dates, the degree ends a month earlier on 27th May 2022, vs the diploma which ends the year on 1st July, 2022. It also means leaving with student debt. For the diploma if it is fully DADA funded, you’ll get equivalent training with potentially more contact hours and no debt at the end of it.

Like your DD we thought it was best our DD did her A’levels to allow her more career options later in life just in case. She’s happy to do either options, so are we. My main concern was ensuring she chose a school where she could do a degree so she could get a student loan or have access to a DADA or internal scholarship opportunities. I think in the end it all comes down to each family/dancer what choice they make.
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dancelifemum
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by dancelifemum »

anastasia79 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:54 am For us Dancelifemum (my DD is 17 in her final year of 6th form) we considered and have applied for both options. Yes the degree gives them the security of financing their course but in some cases it can mean slightly less dance contact hours than the diploma. She’s had both a degree/diploma option at Performers and when I’ve looked at their term dates, the degree ends a month earlier on 27th May 2022, vs the diploma which ends the year on 1st July, 2022. It also means leaving with student debt. For the diploma if it is fully DADA funded, you’ll get equivalent training with potentially more contact hours and no debt at the end of it.

Like your DD we thought it was best our DD did her A’levels to allow her more career options later in life just in case. She’s happy to do either options, so are we. My main concern was ensuring she chose a school where she could do a degree so she could get a student loan or have access to a DADA or internal scholarship opportunities. I think in the end it all comes down to each family/dancer what choice they make.
Yes one of our offers is a diploma with some scholarship funding awarded ...I just wondered as I am sure there are pro/cons for either.
islandofsodor
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by islandofsodor »

At dds college the degree and diploma are very different courses. The diploma has a lot more dance, even the musical theatre diploma whereas the degree is much more of an actor/singer course.

The diploma has a lot more contact hours too.

Some of the degree courses that might have been an option are only part funded too.

Also some very talented students might not be suitable (or want to do) the academic part of the degree course.
K8t
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by K8t »

We’ve had similar conversations, but doing a BTech in whatever, is continuing her education, just including more practical aspects.

A lot depends on the child, personally my dd would find doing 3 A Levels through studying more trying than doing something she loves and is more likely to come out with the equivalent UCAS points.

The turning point for Dad was realising the course was equivalent to 3 A Levels and the head of school (quite academic) saying that any Drama/theatre training is looked on favourably by universities, as having many of the skills required for life.

Obviously she’s not going into medicine or science with this background, but she could divert to teaching, which is her back up.

I was never allowed to persue my dream job, it took me 20 years before I did, so maybe that makes me more passionate that she does something she loves.
StartingLate
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by StartingLate »

Can anybody tell me how many UCAS points for Trinity Level 6 Dance Diploma? Is degree usually a top up year, and would you get into another university degree either from Diploma or top up dance degree?

Oh this is so hard!!

In addition to the BTEC, she got 3 diploma offers, a pending recall and a wait list, 0 rejection so far. And we are still undecided, DD as well as us. Her heart really wants to go with dance, her head is thinking staying at school and re trying in 2 years time.
The biggest fear is that she wouldn’t maintain her current level of dance/technique when studying and then not get offers in 2 years times.
However, she was awarded 2 partial scholarships (non means tested), so I am thinking she would surely get at least one of these colleges again in 2 years.
Also this year she only tried for 2 top colleges (recall and wait list). She didn’t expect to do so well and had written off most that were not dance only. But then she got some lovely comments about her acting. She felt she isn’t good enough singer to try out for some of the top colleges.
If she waits she can work on singing as well as dancing.

And finally I’m worried if she doesn’t make up her mind soon then accommodation will be very challenging if she finally decides to go for it this year.

Oh for a crystal ball!
islandofsodor
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by islandofsodor »

You only get UCAS points for Level 3 qualifications such as A levels or Btec.

The Trinity Diploma is Level 6 so higher than that hence no UCAS points.

Yes, the degree top up is usually an extra 12-18 months (often done part time).

My daughter did the Trinity diploma plus 2 A levels and has an offer to go straight to a Masters degree. Some of her friends are applying for other degree courses after doing the diploma but it’s not clear whether they will be entitled to student finance for this.

3 years ago my daughter was thinking of going to an ordinary school for A levels or Btec and applying at age 18 but one of her dance teachers was quite blunt that in her particular situation, with the classes that would be available to her, she would find it very difficult to keep up her level of dance.
2dancersmum
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Re: Anyone dealing with unenthusiastic Dads???

Post by 2dancersmum »

As Islands has already said, you do not get UCAS points for the Trinity Diploma as it is a level 6 and classed as higher education. A BA or BSC degree is also classed as a level 6 on the scale that compares educational qualifications. Student finance is in theory only available for the first higher education qualification meaning no funding if you wish to do a university degree after a diploma as you are not eligible for student finance. In practice I think everyone I know of who has chosen to do a degree at a later stage has got student finance, as far as I know.

The top-up degree or conversion that you mention can be funded by student finance regardless. It is designed to be distance learning with the idea that students can already be performing and out there working as they do the top up. People DD knows from college have done it while working on cruise ships, in theatres and between contracts.

As far as masters degrees go - no hard and fast rule - but there are places that will allow you to do a masters with the diploma qualification but in related fields - so an MA in Dance/Choreography after studying dance and especially if it is not straight after graduation from the diploma once some performance experience is gained. I've also know of people who have gone on to train as primary school teachers and some secondary school teachers (related specialist subject) and train as nurses with the level 6 diploma as their highest qualification.

It is a minefield out there. My DD graduated almost 6 years ago as a dancer and until the pandemic worked constantly. She wants to continue performing but several of her friends from her cohort and the 2 years above her are now leaving the performing world for other professions. they include teaching, nursing, IT sector, marketing, estate agent, retail management, fashion buyer as well as those who have stayed in the arts - starting their own dance schools, health and fitness training etc
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