Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

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musicalmummy123
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Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by musicalmummy123 »

Just thought it would be an interesting topic to talk about.
MygirlsloveMT
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by MygirlsloveMT »

Most definitely because there aren’t as many boys auditioning. Most colleges would prefer an equal number on their courses but they are often top heavy with girls as the number auditioning far far outweighs boys. Not saying boys have it easy but girls definitely have it harder, in my opinion. And (from experience) certain colleges definitely like ‘their boys’ and they have advantages over girls in the same year.
Harry2003
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by Harry2003 »

Oh well this is a nice polarising topic for a Sunday!

As the mother of 2 boys - one went to Tring the other about to attend EDA. The odds are clearly in favour of the boys just by sheer weight of numbers. The girls have Literally hundreds to compete against, the boys probably a 1/4 of that maybe less. However, when it comes right down to it it’s all about talent. Just because all those girls do MT/dance and they all want to audition does not mean that they are talented. I would imagine 1/2 have completely no chance of getting in (just because they want it and just because they’ve worked hard doesn’t make it so).

The boys have a much harder time of it at school, it is completely not socially acceptable In a secondary school environment for teenage boys to sing and dance. Most keep it quiet or have to put up with snide comments and bullying from the less enlightened teenage lads jockeying for position. We had to send our eldest away at 14 as he was so desperately unhappy at school - a high achieving academy that had a great arts program - but he just could not escape the bullies who found him, wherever he went. The youngest also had it but was able to find a nicer friendship group which helped.

The reason I say that is that I am trying to express that the boys that carry on and make it to senior school auditions are as a whole group very talented, very driven. They would not be able to cope with all the hassle if they weren’t getting great feedback and success in their performance training. The standard for boys is now as high as the girls and yes there are less of them but there are also less places, I honestly don’t believe colleges would want equal numbers of boys and girls for MT as the industry is female heavy (would this change with more men in college? I don’t know).

I think it is an interesting debate as I would imagine for MT the boys could get away with not being amazing dancers when they audition as long as they show potential. However, I can’t imagine a girl getting a place if she wasn’t already highly proficient. But I think the girls are given more Lea way on singing or acting where the boys would have to show higher standards in these to counteract their lack of dance training. I bet they rub their handS in glee when they get anyone who is a genuine triple threat at 16/18 - and this is a very rare thing, it’s bandied about as if it’s a common thing but it really isn’t - most are strong in 2 rarely equally strong in 3 disciplines.

There are so many variables it makes your head spin but at the end of the day those that get into college have ‘something’ about them that comes alive when they perform, for want of a better expression that X factor. That can’t be trained in but it can be brought out by the right training and perhaps some colleges are better at spotting raw talent, others are more interested in nurturing talent and others just want an easy ride, cram the numbers in and let the kids sink or swim so they are not interested in development.

It’s a tough choice of career for anyone, not for the feint hearted and I would love it if parents stopped being competitive on behalf of their children and just enjoy the ride. It’s exciting, it’s exasperating, it’s downright cruel, it can be the best feeling in the world and the worst. We had 2 very difficult years with my eldest who ended up with 2 hip surgeries, being sidelined and trying to get back in shape while growing up away from home. He is now very happily training as a chartered surveyor in a top London firm - his training gave him the drive, the determination and a winning personality - I personally couldn’t be happier that he is out of theatre land but it has been very very hard. I now find us on the same journey with the youngest!! Parents need to support each other, we all love our kids, we all want the best for them, life works out somehow. The world could do with a bit more kindness.
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by MygirlsloveMT »

Kind of what has been said above, I do think that as they grow up you will find girls stick at performing and lots more will audition “because they love it” regardless of the level of their talent, a lot may not actually have what it takes and therefore a lot stand no chance of gaining a place.

However, I think boys who make it to 16/18 and are still performing, through the stigma and bullying that is attached (boils my blood) to boys performing, will more than likely be sensational, I don’t think many boys will carry on if they are blah ‘just because they love it’. This therefore would give them a head start straight away at auditions as their small group is more talented than the majority of the girls’ big groups - does that make sense?

My youngest dd (who also wants to get into this world) has a male friend (they are only 15 at the moment) who wants to do the same. He is good but is definitely at the moment sailing down the line of “oh, I’m a boy, I’ll get in” but we keep trying to point out that all the boys at auditions are phenomenal, my eldest has learn that. So in a way I don’t think just being a boy makes it easier as such but because the talent of the boys that ‘are left’ and audition is so high then I do think that gives them an advantage.
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by Dancecrazy »

Yes it’s a huge advantage . There are so few auditioning and most colleges aim for 50/50 mix so it’s a lot easier to gain a place . My dd has several male friends from her foundation course . Some are amazingly talented and others very average .Some very hardworking and others not so much . All have been equally successful at audition .
It’s seems very unfair as some of the female students on her course who would be so much more talented and hardworking did not get any offers this year.
Having said all that , I feel that boys in performing arts have a tough time in lots of other ways as they can face a lot of bullying etc from their peers from a young age .
amo185
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by amo185 »

Mmm -just being a boy? Possibly. Being a talented, dedicated and hardworking boy - yes. Purely because of numbers.
A significant number of boys audition for colleges with limited training but relative to the years and years (and hours and hours) of training so many girls have had arguably demonstrate more potential to succeed in the business - which, afterall, colleges are looking for. And a boy who has had a lot of training will stand out. The industry needs pretty equal numbers so colleges need to turn out a suitable proportion of lads. At EDA it's about a quarter or a third although I'm sure they could easily have made it half and half if they had wanted to (based on numbers auditioning). We know some talented lads who were not successful but thought they'd be offered a place. But girls need and want to train alongside the boys if not it's an unreal performance experience and limits the material they can do. So good luck to all the lads out there. The industry needs you but it's not an easy ride just because of your gender!
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by Proseccoplease »

Basically I totally echo what Harry 2003 says-my view on this one is that yes you statistically have more chance of getting in if you are a boy BUT the boys that are still pursuing MT at 18 (I’m prepared to get shot down here and it really is only my opinion) are 100% committed and dedicated to getting in. They may will have endured years of bullying or at the least negative comments because of doing dance/MT and have been truly determined to succeed whatever the cost to their social life. I’m sure my DS isn’t the only boy who has been the only boy in ballet class for years, and unlike many of the girls who do it for fitness/social side of it he does it because he is 100% committed to his chosen career and has had times when he’s nearly given up. My DS also had to move schools due to bullying and has lost friends who thought he was no longer ‘cool’. So in conclusion they may statistically find it easier if they are still going at 18 but I do think they are almost guaranteed to be 100% focused and determined if they are still going at 18 despite many barriers. From DS’ experience of auditioning for vocational schools at 16 there certainly still seem to be less places offered to boys anyway-I think in his MT Btec there are around 8 boys and 30 girls so not sure how that works in terms of statistics. I certainly find it hard when friends tell me he’s lucky to be a boy-it hasn’t been easy and he’s worked so hard to get where he is.
islandofsodor
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by islandofsodor »

I’ve got one of each.

It’s much easier for the boy on the whole. However his standard of dance is basic but he is the better singer. My daughter’s Standard of dance far, far exceeds that of her brother.
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by Scarytimes »

Harry2003 wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:25 am Oh well this is a nice polarising topic for a Sunday!

The boys have a much harder time of it at school, it is completely not socially acceptable In a secondary school environment for teenage boys to sing and dance. Most keep it quiet or have to put up with snide comments and bullying from the less enlightened teenage lads jockeying for position. We had to send our eldest away at 14 as he was so desperately unhappy at school - a high achieving academy that had a great arts program - but he just could not escape the bullies who found him, wherever he went. The youngest also had it but was able to find a nicer friendship group which helped.

...Parents need to support each other, we all love our kids, we all want the best for them, life works out somehow. The world could do with a bit more kindness.
Harry2003 - absolutely love your response and agree with it all. Comparing secondary school experience of my two, at the same dance/theatre group is such a different thing!

Son - only boy in his age group with nearest being four years younger, stuck in a tiny little toilet as a changing room and struggled feeling part of it in mid teens despite all teachers loving having a boy to use for duets/lifts etc. Bullying at school until sixth form when it was suddenly cool. Needed the passion and drive to keep going. Now entering third year of professional MT training (coronavirus notwithstanding!).

Daughter - all her social circle at dance, plenty of opportunities to live and breathe dance but lots of competition from the many others girls - did push her to be better, but ultimately the sheer numbers of other girls going for it, means she has made a choice to keep it as a hobby and not try for professional training.
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icantdance
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by icantdance »

To quote the lady who spoke to parents at Laine on the pre-audition day .... "If you have a boy, congratulations!" Yes it's easier but that's because there are less of them, but they are not going to take anybody, male or female, who does not show that they have talent. Perhaps by the time of auditions boys are just more committed and determined. My son is lucky that he's never been bullied, but that might be because he also did karate when he started at secondary school and was known as the karate kid, plus he is now 6'1"!! So, fingers crossed for next year's auditions. Just because he's a boy he still has to audition well on the day - and he is a singer and dancer, but acting is his weakest. He auditioned 2 years ago when he was 16 (and decided in the end that he wasn't ready) but of the 3 auditions he knew he did badly at one audition and wasn't offered a place there. Best of luck, whether you have boys or girls!
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by Hilltop »

This conversation is very interesting to me, as I have 14 year old DD, who is very interested in musical theatre and is doing extracurricular activities in dance, singing and acting but she is very much like hundreds of other girls: slim, mid brown long hair (though she is having it highlighted next week) and I would say good but not outstanding in all three, though I have no idea TBH as it’s so hard to judge your own child. She got into BYMT when she was 12 and 13 but did not get in this year, as I suspect she’s hit the most popular age and she does need to be more confident in auditions. I have supported her for many years and we’re looking at performing arts 6th forms as for her, I think this is the best option, but are we being unrealistic? I see so many outstanding girls at dance that are better than my DD that now we’re getting close to crunch point and making important choices that I just don’t know if we’re wasting our time. Can girls that are probably the same as lots of other girls at age 14 progress to be outstanding with training? I just don’t know what they look for at auditions. If she was a boy I would feel happier about it all but I get the impression that you already need to exceptional at this age if you’re a girl.
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by MygirlsloveMT »

Hilltop wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm This conversation is very interesting to me, as I have 14 year old DD, who is very interested in musical theatre and is doing extracurricular activities in dance, singing and acting but she is very much like hundreds of other girls: slim, mid brown long hair (though she is having it highlighted next week) and I would say good but not outstanding in all three, though I have no idea TBH as it’s so hard to judge your own child. She got into BYMT when she was 12 and 13 but did not get in this year, as I suspect she’s hit the most popular age and she does need to be more confident in auditions. I have supported her for many years and we’re looking at performing arts 6th forms as for her, I think this is the best option, but are we being unrealistic? I see so many outstanding girls at dance that are better than my DD that now we’re getting close to crunch point and making important choices that I just don’t know if we’re wasting our time. Can girls that are probably the same as lots of other girls at age 14 progress to be outstanding with training? I just don’t know what they look for at auditions. If she was a boy I would feel happier about it all but I get the impression that you already need to exceptional at this age if you’re a girl.
My advice would be to let her continue and get as much experience as possible. At 14 my eldest wasn’t outstanding at all, she was a fab dancer (what she lacked in flexibility and skill she made up for with effort) and had singing lessons but only ever did drama at school. However, when she was 17 she went to Urdang summer school and something clicked, she saw how amazing everyone else was and it gave her a kick up the bum, the change in her was almost instant. She auditioned at 18, has just finished a pre-voc year at Performers and is starting Wilkes degree in September.

Auditions were HARD and we honestly thought she wasn’t going to get anything so were relieved when she had 2 foundation course offers, after this last year she is almost unrecognisable to the 14yr old so your dd has plenty of time, I would really recommend summer schools though, they nearly all do them.

Our youngest dd is 15 and also wants to do this 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️, she was booked on Performers summer school this year but due to lockdown has transferred to next year instead. I would say she is probably a better singer than her sister and more technical at dancing at the same age but we are under no illusion as to how difficult it is going to be for her, she is also a lot less confident and confidence is a BIG help.

The gist of this is really to just help your daughter wherever you can and remember this conversation when she is 18 and like a totally different person - good luck!
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icantdance
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by icantdance »

DS is doing the Urdang summer school next week. Sadly it's not actually at Urdang but we are turning the conservatory into a dance studio for a week. It's 1-5 every afternoon - next week or the week after and costs £240 for the week, if anybody's interested. Hopefully it will be really useful and have a similar impact to your DDs experience of the 'proper' Urdang summer school. Urdang is one of the 7 he will be auditioning for next year.
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Re: Does being a boy give you a bigger advantage of getting into a 3 year musical theatre/dance courses?

Post by MygirlsloveMT »

icantdance wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:19 pm DS is doing the Urdang summer school next week. Sadly it's not actually at Urdang but we are turning the conservatory into a dance studio for a week. It's 1-5 every afternoon - next week or the week after and costs £240 for the week, if anybody's interested. Hopefully it will be really useful and have a similar impact to your DDs experience of the 'proper' Urdang summer school. Urdang is one of the 7 he will be auditioning for next year.
I would still let her do one in person, zoom is not the same at all unfortunately. We received details of Urdang’s online summer school but thought it was really expensive, Performers were only charging £100 for theirs for full days!

Look at Performers for next year, it is roughly the same price as Urdang but they do so much more, something every evening (trip to London show, bowling, BBQ all in price) whereas Urdang is just the daily timetable. Performers can also arrange accommodation with a host for the week for a very reasonable cost, it just seems so much better all round. And hey, our DD’s could end up there together!

Oh, and btw, Performers LOVE boys!
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