Seeds of doubt now

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

Moderator: busybusybusy

Dodger'smum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:16 am

Seeds of doubt now

Post by Dodger'smum »

Hello gang,
I just wondered what your thoughts are on this?

DS has been accepted by Emil Dale on a two year course for which he's leaving home. We're hugely grateful and a bit gobsmacked to be honest.

When a now sadly ex-friend found out, I was sent a 3ft long text telling me many reasons why it was the wrong decision. He's an academic who knows many cds and actors and his dds grew up very much into MT.

Some of the things he said have now sown a seed, and after being so happy about the decision, it's secretly eating me away with worry. He said EDA have visiting tutors who flit in and and out therefore nobody gets to really know the children as individuals, that not doing A Levels is a massive mistake according to well seasoned actors, and that MT courses only lead kids to careers as ensemble dancers if they're lucky. He urged his own dds to do A Levels and Acting BAs, although one did hers at a uni with a big element of MT in their course. Do acting CDs really not take MT graduates seriously? That's a huge worry.

DS will be leaving the TV Workshop when he moves to Hitchin and the acting element of the triple threat is extremely important to him - he said he wants to train to survive in the industry and that he won't be young forever and wants to have the acting skills to see him through when perhaps the dancing stops. Does triple threat really mean triple threat e.g. diction etc etc.

The rest of the text was personally very off the mark and hurtful (e.g. thinking your child is special will bite you back) but it can't be jealousy as he has two wonderfully talented children and a wonderful life. Is there an element of truth in what he said? We'll be living hand to mouth for the next two years but it's what our ds wants with every fibre of his body as I know other NAPMs will understand. I'm just so worried now. Any thoughts from anyone? Thanks so much xxx
Munchpot
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Munchpot »

Hi

Can't comment on the standard of Emil Dale in that I haven't had a DC go through them. A friend's DD is there and seems to be loving it and getting ob very well

Their last show was simply amazing and we were blown away by the sheer talent on stage.

My DD did A-Levels as we had the same view as your friend. In all honesty if we had the chance to do it again we wouldn't go down the A Level route. A Btec will qualify you for degree courses if that's the route you want to go.

I would say if you and your son are happy then go for it. Every child is different and you can't compare your DS to his DC's
Dodger'smum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:16 am

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Dodger'smum »

Thank you Munchpot x
User avatar
Caroline A-C
BAFTA Award
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Caroline A-C »

My ds didn't do A levels and went straight to Arts Ed to do the MT BA. He has been in work a lot of the time since (although there have been jobless times). He is currently in Heathers The Musical (not ensemble) and has actually never been ensemble so it is not true for your friend to say that. Once he finishes that he is going straight into filming which is not MT so MT not being taken seriously by the straight acting bunch is also not true. I have a friend whose son went to Bristol Old Vic and he has more trouble finding work as he is completely limited to straight acting. I do believe that if you put in the effort you will reap the rewards. It is also down to the client to get their agent to push for what they want. Obviously if you have done MT your agent is going to push you down that route. Ds said that a he wanted to branch out and that is exactly what his agent has helped him with. There is a lot of jealousy in this world and I really think you have to ignore things to a point and go with what you feel is right for your child.
All new to me!
kzgirl
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by kzgirl »

A lot of performing arts colleges have tutors that flit in and out, they teach between stage jobs.
Marissa
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Marissa »

How sad x I understand a 'friend'offering advice but to make you feel so upset is just not nice x this business is down to hard work, contacts and luck whichever route you take x I actually discussed with my DD recently how I wish I'd known more and have got her into mt training earlier instead of doing alevels x you follow your sons heart x he will be fine x
Dodger'smum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:16 am

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Dodger'smum »

Bless you all so much for that, I can't tell you what it means. What with GCSEs, and then having our youngest leave home so early.... the text just touched a nerve I guess.
Have a lovely weekend everyone. Thank you again x
Itsastrangeworld
BRIT Award
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Itsastrangeworld »

Please don’t forget that all our children are special, and that’s what makes us support them, often at a huge financial cost to us parents!! Having a passion is a huge bonus to young people, when so many drift into courses not knowing which route to take into adulthood. Whilst it’s a difficult career, it’s also one that can be extremely fulfilling :D
User avatar
riverdancefan
OSCAR Award
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by riverdancefan »

I think that’s a hideous text to send someone!
My DS is academic - started off at 6th form and was thoroughly miserable. He ended up taking AS levels and moving to the AMAZING Emil Dale. We don’t regret a second, the only regret is not going at the beginning of the year and wasting 6 months.
Your son isn’t his son
Your son has different wants and needs.
The world is your oyster after EDA, and the BTech isn’t a push over, it’s perfectly adequate to get to degree acceptance after. My DS has thrived and flourished at EDA and will be more than ready for whatever he wants to do after.
The tutors don’t flounce in and out, there is a solid base of tuition with some incredible performers and teachers coming in as guests. The kids are pushed and stretched every day.
If you really feel like that after one negative message from someone who clearly knows diddly about EDA, and Is happy to stir the pot I would speak to any student or Emil himself for a less biased opinion. My DS would be happy to speak to you I’m sure.
As for doing MT and being pushed in that direction , can I mention Cynthia Erivo, Bertie Carvel,...both RADA trained, a two year MT course won’t stop your DS from pursuing a great acting training if he wants, the cross over from MT to acting and vice versa is getting easier year on year
As for only being ensemble , tell that to our friends fresh out of Arts ed and Mountview and into Sophie in Mama Mia and Cosette in the WE Les Mis.. I’ve never heard such BS \:D/
Ignore ignore ignore
"Tall and proud my mother taught me, this is how we dance" - RIVERDANCE
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Robin64 »

Bravo Riverdance. Well said! Ignore that rubbish from someone who likes to think they know it all. Like the tutor at my dds btec college who said people like them never got into top colleges so don't bother. It sounds like a great college and excellent opportunity. Go for it!!
theMTAonline
BRIT Award
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by theMTAonline »

Hi
I think that your friend is really misinformed.
Firstly EDA states very clearly that they have a core group of staff plus visiting tutors. We're the only 'flit in and flit out' place, to quote your friend, and even then, they couldn't be more wrong!
Secondly your DS is training to go into a vocational industry so actually in reality every qualification is 'worthless' - it's the training that's important. The qualification is there to help funding. In fact degrees/diplomas etc are a relatively new thing for industry professionals. In other words whether it's A Levels or BTEC or indeed just the training, as long as the training is good - he'll be fine.
I won't keep numbering the points, but to continue - it is a little bit harder to move across from the MT world to the straight acting world (as obviously there are a load of graduates that have trained specifically in that world), but the times are changing and some courses more than others are successfully seeing their graduates going between the two worlds. Much more relevant though for you, is that your DS is only at FE level right now, so your 'friend's' point about that is complete pointless!
I'm afraid that their point about training in MT 'only' gets you into the ensemble is misplaced too. I mean getting into an ensemble is really difficult - the competition is fierce! However getting a lead in any show is about so many factors, however very few straight acting course graduates would be able to do the lead in a musical because they wouldn't have the dance training to do the rest of it. Clearly there are some shows which would be the exception to the rule as with all things, but overall, with the industry the way it is, and more importantly, with the way that it's going, if your DS has the ability to be trained in all three disciplines then grab it, as the more skilled you are the more likely you are to succeed.
To put myself into context I'm actually in the industry and have been for over 30 years, so I hope that this has reassured you. I wish your DS all the very best :lol:
I'll add the disclaimer of I don't know anything about the standard at EDA - just hitting on the facts in your post :-)
Scarytimes
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Scarytimes »

My thoughts echo what everyone else has said, in particular that DS did A level but in retrospect I wouldn't hesitate to go for BTEC instead, especially for those who are then likely to be juggling auditions in their second year - it is a bit of a killer for A levels and although he seems to be still doing well, it has been a slog and teachers not that understanding about the time off going up and down to London.

I know the two years will be hard financially, but it will give him a real chance to see whether this is really what he wants to do. Nowadays people don't expect to have a single career so there are more possibilities of a U turn later on if he decides it isn't for him. I don't think anything has to be a forever decision.

I think it is wonderful that you are supporting him to go for what he wants and, as parents, that's the best we can do for them.
lotsolaffs
BAFTA Award
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:22 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by lotsolaffs »

Dodger ' s mum I have sent you a pm.
Dodger'smum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:16 am

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Dodger'smum »

I can't thank you all enough for your professional insight (MTAonline), your pms and your kind thoughts. It has helped massively and I think all we can do is support our dcs, and be there whatever happens. The industry is forever morphing and although I am the best worrier on the planet, I can see how fretting now may have no relevance at all for future developments whatever know-it-all "friends" may say.
It hurts, but I have others' thoughts and kindness now to counteract the things he said.

EDA here we come then, heaven help us :shock:
Happy weekend lovely NAPMs and thank you so much again xxx
Fullmoon
BRIT Award
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Seeds of doubt now

Post by Fullmoon »

Wow! Not much more to add, except your ex-friend is clearly either very misguided or very jealous. Either way, they’re better of remaining as an “ex” anything in your life from the sounds of it! :roll:

My DD has just finished A levels, alongside BTec and Vocational Dance. It’s been a hard slog, but she wanted to do A levels and doesn’t have any regrets. However, at the end of the day, like many many other DC’s she was not judged on her academics, what exams she has/was taking (academic or otherwise) or anything other than her performance in the audition on the day in order to get her place at college next year....and this will be the same for her and all our DC’s when they step out into the big wide world of job auditions in 3 years time! ;)

Good Luck to your DS :D
Post Reply