Times article - MT degree fees challenge

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

Moderator: busybusybusy

User avatar
Caroline A-C
BAFTA Award
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Caroline A-C »

When DS was at Arts Ed there was certainly no part of the fees that were "optional"- you paid through the nose and that was that. Having said that, the difference between a standard degree course in terms of contact hours is hugely different. I know some people at uni at the moment who have no more than seven hours lectures per week whereas DS was getting more than that in just one day. Also lectures at uni have a vast number of students attending whereas performing arts degree classes are very small in comparison. You can see to some extent why they are so much more expensive. Having said that, if a normal degree course is funded by Student Finance fully, why are the performing arts degrees not funded fully? Very unfair system.
All new to me!
Bean
Nominee
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Bean »

It does annoy me that the government won’t award the full £9200 student loan toward these courses, but stops at £6000. The students are attacked from both sides. They have to pay so much more than other students for many more hours of hard work, but appear to be considered inferior and not allowed access to the same level of borrowing as other students. The government also need to be challenged surely.
beanie-bean
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:06 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by beanie-bean »

Caroline A-C wrote:When DS was at Arts Ed there was certainly no part of the fees that were "optional"- you paid through the nose and that was that. Having said that, the difference between a standard degree course in terms of contact hours is hugely different. I know some people at uni at the moment who have no more than seven hours lectures per week whereas DS was getting more than that in just one day. Also lectures at uni have a vast number of students attending whereas performing arts degree classes are very small in comparison. You can see to some extent why they are so much more expensive. Having said that, if a normal degree course is funded by Student Finance fully, why are the performing arts degrees not funded fully? Very unfair system.
Good point 're contact hours. Although Bird, GSA and now Performers can manage to provide the course without the extras. However they are not based on London so their overheads may be less. I'm also now wondering why the diploma at these colleges is costing more than the degrees. It really is a can of worms. Xxx
princess1
BRIT Award
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 12:14 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by princess1 »

This is very interesting and hopefully will help students in future! At the very least all degree courses should cost the same! My DD goes to london studio centre where we can only get £6000 through student finance ( well I think this year it may have been £6100) and have to top up over double that for the years fees!
Although we assumed it was because the contact hours are way more than a standard degree - in his final year my son had about 6 contact hours a week yet my DD has prob about 37-40! Also the Year is much longer n a standard degree - they are usually pretty much done by May yet my DD' s year never ends until middle of July!
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

In terms of contact hours, my friend's DD is on a medical type degree and has lots of contact hours ( they do spend some time in work place training too though) but the equipment and facilities are hugely expensive. They don't have to top up the fees though. Standard £9250
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

£96m for specialist teachers to help pupils attend top art/drama schools, meaning more opportunities for disadvantaged children to realise their dreams.

Just noticed this on the page of the Universities Minister.
http://www.samgyimah.com/vision/

Anyone heard about it? and what does it entail? I might write to him and ask for a break down of the £96m spending.
lotsolaffs
BAFTA Award
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:22 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by lotsolaffs »

Robin64 where did you find info about £96 million, thanks
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

lotsolaffs wrote:Robin64 where did you find info about £96 million, thanks
http://www.samgyimah.com/contact/?conta ... ct-form-24

look on the right hand side which I think might be his FB page or tweets. I actually forgot it wasn't Joe Johnson anymore as Uni Minister and just looked to see if there was any more about fees. I have never heard any announcement of £96M for this and no idea what it entails but I have emailed to ask!!
DGtherunner
BRIT Award
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by DGtherunner »

princess1 wrote:This is very interesting and hopefully will help students in future! At the very least all degree courses should cost the same! My DD goes to london studio centre where we can only get £6000 through student finance ( well I think this year it may have been £6100) and have to top up over double that for the years fees!
Although we assumed it was because the contact hours are way more than a standard degree - in his final year my son had about 6 contact hours a week yet my DD has prob about 37-40! Also the Year is much longer n a standard degree - they are usually pretty much done by May yet my DD' s year never ends until middle of July!
It is because the university is a private one. Students at private universities have only been eligible for the the smaller student loans since 2011. It was supposed to drive down the cost of degrees. That's worked out well hasn't it for people doing MT degrees!

"Undergraduates will be able to borrow up to £6,000 a year – double the existing sum – to cover the cost of studying at independent institutions.

The move is being seen as an attempt to introduce more competition into higher education and reward private providers who are more likely to offer cut-price courses." (Daily Telegraph 2011 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/u ... ities.html)
Dancersinger
Nominee
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:59 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Dancersinger »

We have spoken to a lot of different colleges in the past couple of years whilst investigateing options and what came across very strongly is that although a lot of parents want degreee funding/student finance instead of Dada funding in order for colleges to operate and offer the level of training that they feel is required and that parents/Spotlight is demandin they need to be charging fees in the region of £12-14k per year which is what the Trinity Diploma courses have generally been for the past few years. The only way to offer professional musical theatre training for less money is to either offer less contact hours or to increase class sizes.

We investigated a few colleges where the second option seems to have been the one taken and my daughter didn't like that. The colleges that seem to have the best reputation at the moment such as Arts Ed charge considerable top up fees.

What I didn't realise until very recently was that the colleges that offer a degree for the £9,000 odd don't actually get to keep that money to run their course. Becasue there have been quite a few colleges going into financial difficulties or even folding recently I decided after reading a post on here about accounts, to investigate the company accounts of some of the places we were interested in especially as a friend of mine had told me about some students who had joined her college after their original college went bankrupt. In the director's report of one college it mentions that the college received £7,000 per degree student with the rest going to the validating university so it seemed a no brainer that the college can offer less contact hours for the degree course than for the diploma course where the fees of £14 are covered in most cases by a Dada.

Anothe college we looked at who advertised small class sizes and high contact hours etc have been taking in less fee income than they are spending for the last few years and there is a warning on the accounts that the college may not be financially viable.
Robin64 wrote:£96m for specialist teachers to help pupils attend top art/drama schools, meaning more opportunities for disadvantaged children to realise their dreams.


Just noticed this on the page of the Universities Minister.
http://www.samgyimah.com/vision/

Anyone heard about it? and what does it entail? I might write to him and ask for a break down of the £96m spending.

I read a press release about the £96 million on Facebookand it is the extension of the MDS and Dada awards schemes that fund the tuition fees of talented children & young people at vocational classical dance and music schools & CAT and Drama/Dance colleges. Also there is some kind of scheme being set up with the British Film Institute.
Last edited by Dancersinger on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

HHmmm. Then is the £96m on top of what they already give or are they just spinning the whole thing by advertising (or including) what they already have already been spending on those schemes which has been agreed previously and to be honest leaves out quite a number of middle income families who have seen dadas become useless because they do not cover enough of the expense to make diplomas affordable.
Dancersinger
Nominee
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:59 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Dancersinger »

I think it is extra money but I'm not totally sure. The article doesn't make it clear but the words extra funding were used.

We are a middle income family in the £60-65k category and I am personally very happy that dd will be getting a DaDa. Back when I was at 6th form, families like ours could not afford to send their children to drama schools. I know someone who had to turn down a place at Rada. Without a Dada there is no way we could afford fees of £12-14K per year.
Scarytimes
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Scarytimes »

Robin64 wrote:HHmmm. Then is the £96m on top of what they already give or are they just spinning the whole thing by advertising (or including) what they already have already been spending on those schemes which has been agreed previously and to be honest leaves out quite a number of middle income families who have seen dadas become useless because they do not cover enough of the expense to make diplomas affordable.
We are middle income too (though between us earn towards the top of their scale) so a DaDA may not give enough for DS to go to Laine even if he is awarded with one! If we had one child then our income would be enough for mortgage, living expenses and top up - but we have three children, all needing their slice of our income...
Munchpot
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Munchpot »

Scarytimes wrote: We are middle income too (though between us earn towards the top of their scale) so a DaDA may not give enough for DS to go to Laine even if he is awarded with one! If we had one child then our income would be enough for mortgage, living expenses and top up - but we have three children, all needing their slice of our income...
And that's the most annoying thing about Household income - it doesn't take into account expenditure or the number of children you have.

For example a household income of £70k with one child would leave you in a very different position than a household income of £70k with 3 children all wanting to pursue Perf Arts training!
amo185
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by amo185 »

And in addition DADAs are based on your income during the previous financial year, not the current one and you may be in a very different situation now. Also, In our case child benefit tipped us into the next category so we had to pay more. Had we known, we would not have claimed child benefit that year!
The whole funding of the arts is a mess and it seems that the industry is becoming more and more the preserve of the affluent rather than the talented. I am not sure though whether it can change for the better. Just keep crossing those fingers for funding or suitable student loans for our hardworking children.
Post Reply