Times article - MT degree fees challenge

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

Moderator: busybusybusy

Scarytimes
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Scarytimes »

Not sure the link will work, but here is an article from The Times today re MT course fees for degree (specifically Urdang): https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outl ... reserved=0

Wonder if this will open the floodgates?
Or whether most others can't be as easily challenged as they are classes as private colleges and only funded by £6k Student loan per year not the full £9k?
beanie-bean
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:06 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by beanie-bean »

Thanks for sharing this Scarytimes. I'm glad this is being challenged and It will be very interesting so see if anything changes. Xxx
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

Interesting. I don't ever remember that extra bit of the fees being "optional" though? I do know some students get that bit topped up as a bursary but let's face it we paid £75 (non refundable) to be even considered for a bursary and that is before even doing the recall audition. At present several of the training colleges are completely off the radar for lots of students due to the fact they charge more than the student loan fee level and I hope something comes of the challenge. It is about time. However, I am aware that some of these places seem to be in financial difficulty so I guess the issue is complicated and another source of funding might be needed to bridge the gap. Not really fair for degrees to cost more - all other unis charge the set £9250 and these places are offering degrees validated by those same unis.
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

Also ..note the pathetic comment left about "do you want fries" So sick of the ignorant people that know nothing of what these young people are doing in their training and how hard they work. The skills they get are very transferable and they work damn hard and harder than many other students.
Scarytimes
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Scarytimes »

Robin64 wrote:Interesting. I don't ever remember that extra bit of the fees being "optional" though? I do know some students get that bit topped up as a bursary but let's face it we paid £75 (non refundable) to be even considered for a bursary and that is before even doing the recall audition. At present several of the training colleges are completely off the radar for lots of students due to the fact they charge more than the student loan fee level and I hope something comes of the challenge. It is about time. However, I am aware that some of these places seem to be in financial difficulty so I guess the issue is complicated and another source of funding might be needed to bridge the gap. Not really fair for degrees to cost more - all other unis charge the set £9250 and these places are offering degrees validated by those same unis.
Interesting. I hadn't heard about financial difficulties. Anything you can share?

DS has a degree place at Urdang and they did top up and although they asked for £100 deposit, I see that our £75 for being considered has been returned. Not sure what is going on there! I would agree that nowhere in the information did it say any of the fee was optional.
scottishdancer00
BRIT Award
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by scottishdancer00 »

Robin64 wrote:Also ..note the pathetic comment left about "do you want fries" So sick of the ignorant people that know nothing of what these young people are doing in their training and how hard they work. The skills they get are very transferable and they work damn hard and harder than many other students.
Completely agree. Even at Dds singing last week she was laughed at by a teacher for doing dance as a subject at school who said ‘that’s a subject choice that deserves to be mocked’ because she asked to leave at 10pm and not stay late because she had a 9am dance exam.Coming from someone who wants her to study MT! But who ever achieved anything special by following the crowd
scottishdancer00
BRIT Award
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by scottishdancer00 »

Oh dear have just read my comment and I sound all offended at one wee comment made to my daughter . I’m not haha I just mean I relate to people not understanding our DCs career choice
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

Scarytimes wrote:
Robin64 wrote:Interesting. I don't ever remember that extra bit of the fees being "optional" though? I do know some students get that bit topped up as a bursary but let's face it we paid £75 (non refundable) to be even considered for a bursary and that is before even doing the recall audition. At present several of the training colleges are completely off the radar for lots of students due to the fact they charge more than the student loan fee level and I hope something comes of the challenge. It is about time. However, I am aware that some of these places seem to be in financial difficulty so I guess the issue is complicated and another source of funding might be needed to bridge the gap. Not really fair for degrees to cost more - all other unis charge the set £9250 and these places are offering degrees validated by those same unis.
Interesting. I hadn't heard about financial difficulties. Anything you can share?

DS has a degree place at Urdang and they did top up and although they asked for £100 deposit, I see that our £75 for being considered has been returned. Not sure what is going on there! I would agree that nowhere in the information did it say any of the fee was optional.
Just there has been items in the news recently about Italia Conti, Rose Bruford facing financial difficulties. We were chatting on another thread about it. No particular insight into it.

I do think that colleges need to either be private - charge what you want and offer bursaries or if offering validated BA degrees they should be £9250 same as everywhere else. You don't pay different fees for different degrees at standard unis. I don't think colleges should have the right to make up another amount or call it "optional" when patently it isn't. Fascinating to see it called out and to see what will happen.
lbm1e14
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by lbm1e14 »

PPA are doing this too. They're offering a funded BA for the first time this Sept (started last year or the year before but wasn't funded) and it is £9,250 with an optional package of extra for £1,250. Its discusssed on another thread. When you look at the extras they're not really optional at all.

The whole MT funding is a mess including the DaDa system. The whole thing needs thrown in the bin and one standard system introduced. I would argue that it's a vocational qualification and a BA in it shouldn't actually exist unless it's a purely academic course. I've long thought that the only reason colleges offer BAs is to access funding not because they want to offer BAs.
jennifer1972
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:34 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by jennifer1972 »

Robin64 wrote:Also ..note the pathetic comment left about "do you want fries" So sick of the ignorant people that know nothing of what these young people are doing in their training and how hard they work. The skills they get are very transferable and they work damn hard and harder than many other students.
I agree, my DD and her friends are way too tired to go out partying all weekend like a lot of students. Whether they make it or not as a performer, they are used to hard work and long hours, which would come as a shock to a lot of graduates!
Munchpot
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Munchpot »

The comment about Urdang and the fees being for additional training and show at a London theatre makes me wonder if this is the agents showcase. If it is no one would see this as optional as without taking part you're very u likely to be signed by an agent

What would just be nice if the colleges were just upfront. Very difficult on some websites (Urdang included) to actually find the fees laid out clearly

The legal challenge will be too late for 2018 entry but may help others
lbm1e14
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by lbm1e14 »

Munchpot wrote:The comment about Urdang and the fees being for additional training and show at a London theatre makes me wonder if this is the agents showcase. If it is no one would see this as optional as without taking part you're very u likely to be signed by an agent

What would just be nice if the colleges were just upfront. Very difficult on some websites (Urdang included) to actually find the fees laid out clearly

The legal challenge will be too late for 2018 entry but may help others
I think that the showcase is part of the PPA optional extras as well. As you say not optional at all. Looks like they think they've found a legalistic way round the fee cap. They'll all be at it before long.

Agree on the Urdan website. I had to post on here three years ago to ask what the fees were. Seemed to be a state secret even then.
lawn
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 407
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:19 am

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by lawn »

lbm1e14 wrote:PPA are doing this too. They're offering a funded BA for the first time this Sept (started last year or the year before but wasn't funded) and it is £9,250 with an optional package of extra for £1,250. Its discusssed on another thread. When you look at the extras they're not really optional at all.

The whole MT funding is a mess including the DaDa system. The whole thing needs thrown in the bin and one standard system introduced. I would argue that it's a vocational qualification and a BA in it shouldn't actually exist unless it's a purely academic course. I've long thought that the only reason colleges offer BAs is to access funding not because they want to offer BAs.
How would you fund it though? It's slightly different to my DD whose strength is acting, but even if she does want to consider MT when the time comes, there is no way we could afford to fund her even with a Dada. Course fees we'd manage, it's the living expenses that would be the issue as we live in the North of England and anywhere would be too far to commute to.
Robin64
BAFTA Award
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by Robin64 »

lbm1e14 wrote:
Munchpot wrote:The comment about Urdang and the fees being for additional training and show at a London theatre makes me wonder if this is the agents showcase. If it is no one would see this as optional as without taking part you're very u likely to be signed by an agent

What would just be nice if the colleges were just upfront. Very difficult on some websites (Urdang included) to actually find the fees laid out clearly

The legal challenge will be too late for 2018 entry but may help others
I think that the showcase is part of the PPA optional extras as well. As you say not optional at all. Looks like they think they've found a legalistic way round the fee cap. They'll all be at it before long.

Agree on the Urdan website. I had to post on here three years ago to ask what the fees were. Seemed to be a state secret even then.
Yes I remember PPA coming up about this before. The "optional" payment was for really essential bits of the course and I think the showcase was involved. It annoyed me and DD didn't bother applying. The unis should refuse to validate degrees for places that charge over the normal fees. However I expect there is a nice financial gain to be made by the universities for their validation so they are not going to make any waves.
scottishdancer00
BRIT Award
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Times article - MT degree fees challenge

Post by scottishdancer00 »

lawn wrote:
lbm1e14 wrote:PPA are doing this too. They're offering a funded BA for the first time this Sept (started last year or the year before but wasn't funded) and it is £9,250 with an optional package of extra for £1,250. Its discusssed on another thread. When you look at the extras they're not really optional at all.

The whole MT funding is a mess including the DaDa system. The whole thing needs thrown in the bin and one standard system introduced. I would argue that it's a vocational qualification and a BA in it shouldn't actually exist unless it's a purely academic course. I've long thought that the only reason colleges offer BAs is to access funding not because they want to offer BAs.
How would you fund it though? It's slightly different to my DD whose strength is acting, but even if she does want to consider MT when the time comes, there is no way we could afford to fund her even with a Dada. Course fees we'd manage, it's the living expenses that would be the issue as we live in the North of England and anywhere would be too far to commute to.
I obviously don’t know exactly where you are based but if your daughter does decide on MT have a look into SLP college it might be slightly nearer to you and offers a Dada x
Post Reply