Mental health in performing arts

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

Moderator: busybusybusy

lbm1e14
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Mental health in performing arts

Post by lbm1e14 »

Post deleted.
Last edited by lbm1e14 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
islandofsodor
OSCAR Award
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:09 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by islandofsodor »

I had thought about posting before but was unsure especially as several people on the forums I use knew Olivia, but Olivia's mum posted links from their Look North interview & obviously want word to get out. (It's Olivia Faulkner by the way, Zoe is Olivia's mum)

Olivia was not only a very talented young lady (former Janet Cram prize winner, excellent reviews for Pippin etc) she was a lovely, kind, popular young lady. Everyone was devastated to hear of her death, it was completely unexpected. I don't know about the college she attended from 16 onwards but I do know her former school is always there for former students (I have personal knowledge of this as support was given to a friend's Dd who was having difficulties at the college she moved onto). However the actions of Olivia's most recent college lead me to believe that they also very supportive.

It terrifies me just what young people can hide. My thoughts are with her family & friends
kzgirl
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by kzgirl »

This is so sad, we have experienced DD having issues. I approached the performing arts college because of all the bullying going on but they weren’t interested. DD came home cause she was ill, the college then threatened to take her finding away. DD experienced very bad behaviour from other girls in the college, they would arrange to meet her and not turn up. Her housemates grabbed lifts home from girls in the college with cars and drive past DD while she was walking home waving at her. She had her microphone hidden at shows. The house mates would ring her from work telling her to put their washing in the machine. The bath was always left filthy for DD to clean. DD food was eaten. This was just the tip of the iceberg. All these little things really affected DD in the end she came home, the college were useless when dealing with this. It is very worrying as a parent when your child is 5.5 hour car drive away and all this is going on. DD was on anti deprecents for a while and even now suffers with anxiety. Even the housemates parents were not nice, they came from up north, we are southerners, the first question a parent asked DD was which private school did you attend and what part of London do you come from. They said DD spoke posh. Little did they know she was from one of the poorest households in the college.The performing arts world is just so bitchy and no matter how strong you are sometimes it can be very difficult to deal with. Jealousy is such an awful thing. I dread to think what this poor girl went through to get to the point to commit suicide.
islandofsodor
OSCAR Award
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:09 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by islandofsodor »

Im sorry for your dd's experience kzgirl but I would like to re/iterate there is no suggestion at all that Olivia had been bullied at all. Of course I'm not in full possession of the facts but I just wanted to point that out.

She was very kind to my dd when Dd was having problems in Year 7 caused in part by a then undiagnosed condition). She helped others. I'm so sad she felt the way she did.
2dancersmum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by 2dancersmum »

Not sure how I feel about this thread - talking about mental health and making sure how young performers are aware of help out there is obviously important but I do not feel that this has not been done very sympathetically here. The poster quotes the case 'tragic case' of an individual , names them (and gets the name wrong!) and promotes the work of various initiatives aimed at helping raise awareness. The obvious link missing is for the go fund me campaign that her parents set up to raise awareness. I would imagine they hope something positive can come from Olivia's death. I certainly hope this thread is not allowed to become a speculation of why she died. Personally I don't think individuals and their circumstances should be named and discussed on forums like this, but since she has been , lets at least follow the wishes of the parents

https://www.gofundme.com/4smwny0
islandofsodor
OSCAR Award
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:09 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by islandofsodor »

Zoe has asked for this link to be shared. It's via Facebook so not sure if it will work or not.

https://www.facebook.com/zoe.faulknerbl ... 5053056567

I agree that specific speculation is not helpful some posts have seemed to make implications that are simply not relevant (in an attempt to link this to particular other initiatives perhaps?)
lbm1e14
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by lbm1e14 »

I have deleted my original post which has seemingly offended along with another which I subsequently made.

I'd like to simply point out that I "got the name wrong!" simply because I had assumed the gofundmepage was in the daughter's name and not her mothers. I apologise unreservedly for that.

2dancersmum - I totally agree with you that specifics should not be discussed here but I think the point of Olivia's parents appearing on television was just that - to make their specific tragedy public.

I totally agree also that it is wholly unacceptable to speculate as to why this happened. Neither did I intend to imply that any of the colleges could have done more than they did. I merely wanted to suggest that colleges in general need to up their game in coping with mental illness.

I'm not sure what your point is islandsofsodor when you say "perhaps trying to promote specific initiatives". It sounds like a veiled accusation, of what I'm not sure. Or am I being overly sensitive? The whole point of the gofundme page is to prevent tragedies such as this happening again so all I was trying to do was promote initiatives which already exist as well as new initiatives which will arise as a result of the funds raised. Also as I pointed out there is a pinned post in this training section about one initiative which Admin put there, not me. So clearly someone running this forum sees merit in such initiatives. The problem is that there need to be many more. And any initiatives which arise form the gofundme funds deserve to be promoted also.

I'm very disappointed that what was a well intentioned post has turned sour. But that's social media for you. People see what they want to see and impute motives which are not necessarily there. I should have probably spent much more time drafting my initial post.
User avatar
riverdancefan
OSCAR Award
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by riverdancefan »

Please don’t feel bad IbM, it’s clear to me why you posted and I’m not sure the response needed to be quite so harsh, making you feel awful for no good reason.
It’s something we all need to be acutely aware of around young people, not just in performing arts. A young man committed suicide just after leaving my DS’ last school. He was popular, handsome, clever and funny. Again a lovely mum and Dad , very supportive but for whatever reason, he took his own life. I know his parents are working hard to raise awareness too.

It’s not always the introvert, sitting alone in their bedrooms, it can be the seemingly popular, bright and bubbly extrovert, someone surrounded by friends but feeling totally alone, in fact it can be absolutely ANY young person.
Thank you for raising this, I wasn’t aware of this lovely young lady and my heart aches for her parents.
Now the original
Post has been deleted the thread doesn’t make sense so it should probably be removed - which is a shame
"Tall and proud my mother taught me, this is how we dance" - RIVERDANCE
lbm1e14
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by lbm1e14 »

riverdancefan wrote:Please don’t feel bad IbM, it’s clear to me why you posted and I’m not sure the response needed to be quite so harsh, making you feel awful for no good reason.
It’s something we all need to be acutely aware of around young people, not just in performing arts. A young man committed suicide just after leaving my DS’ last school. He was popular, handsome, clever and funny. Again a lovely mum and Dad , very supportive but for whatever reason, he took his own life. I know his parents are working hard to raise awareness too.

It’s not always the introvert, sitting alone in their bedrooms, it can be the seemingly popular, bright and bubbly extrovert, someone surrounded by friends but feeling totally alone, in fact it can be absolutely ANY young person.
Thank you for raising this, I wasn’t aware of this lovely young lady and my heart aches for her parents.
Now the original
Post has been deleted the thread doesn’t make sense so it should probably be removed - which is a shame
Thanks for that riversancefan. What you say is so true. And isladsofsodor put it quite nicely too - it is quite frightening what young people can hide and you can't even begin to imagine what their parents go through or indeed what their young one was going through.

I agree with you that this thread is perhaps best deleted now and that it is a shame.
amo185
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 am

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by amo185 »

Liv was a close friend of my son's. Please do not speculate. There was certainly no bullying AT ALL by the excellent, supportive college she attended or students. I applauded her when she received their Rising Star Award - and I remember everyone's joy when her successful audition for Pippin was announced on the day both she and my son graduated.
Mental health involves so much more and there is no doubt that our young people are embarking on a profession which places them constantly under pressure. Such tragic events can have a root cause- which can be known by the family. The impact is huge on everyone. My son was devastated. Please donate to Liv's gofundme page if you can.
(I was pleased to see Emildale Academy spent two days on staff training to begin to get to grips with Mental Health. I hope all PA colleges do the same - as a start at least. It is a widespread issue and will not go away.)
2dancersmum
GRAMMY Award
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by 2dancersmum »

You and I will have to disagree on this. Yes her parents went public - to raise awareness of their own personal tragedy and their own awareness go fund me campaign.

I'm afraid I agree that you should have spent more time drafting your initial post. I appreciate that your post was well intentioned and that you were trying to draw attention to initiatives that already exist to help young people. Unfortunately when you cite a very recent tragic example, get the name wrong, do not draw attention to the campaign the parents have gone public for , then it does come across as just using the tragic situation to make your own points and as I said before not being done very sympathetically. Perhaps bear in mind that her parents, family and friends are still in shock and grieving and not once in any of your posts, deleted or otherwise, have you expressed any sympathy for their loss. I am sure quite a few members of this group (or their DC) will have known Olivia and have had the same 'not sure how I feel about this thread' reaction to your initial deleted post that I had.

As you say, the whole point of the gofundme page is to prevent tragedies such as this happening again. Your intentions are good and you explain yourself so much better in your later post than the one you deleted. Please do not take this as a personal attack as that is not my intention.
User avatar
Caroline A-C
BAFTA Award
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by Caroline A-C »

I actually think that bringing this to the public notice is what is needed at the moment. There are a staggering amount of youngsters suffering with mental health issues and something needs to be done. However, it is not just the performing arts sector that is hit with this. As tragic as this case is, if it makes people do something about the situation then there is a positive coming out of it. Kids today seem to be under so much more pressure than I ever remember having. The stigma around mental needs to be lifted - mental illness is no less serious than physical illness.
All new to me!
User avatar
Caroline A-C
BAFTA Award
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by Caroline A-C »

I must add that I did not actually see the original post and am just adding what I feel about the sad situation.
All new to me!
paulears
BAFTA Award
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:01 am

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by paulears »

I thought I posted this, but probably got busy before I posted it.

I see great steps being taken to raise awareness of mental health. Indeed, I belong to a craft guild - all professional people, from students to retired, and the organisation ran a story about mental health issues and the response was amazing - loads of people told their own stories about their own mental health issues - ranging from mild to serious. Surprising the number of people who have suffered. This 'coming out' with people telling their own stories can only be good.

I'm more worried about the performer world though. We're in a very tricky position. Health (all kinds, not just mental health) is ALWAYS a negative. Young dancers who need repair surgery don't do it because they cannot afford 6 months off to recover and try to carry on working. Their problem is never communicated to others when they go for auditions. We all know how fickle auditions can be with shape and size, colouring, being important before they even get to act, sing or dance. We also work in an industry where every performer has a different role, and even when a show has swings, swapping people always causes grief. Understudies are an everything else failed situation. If one gets used, that person is missing from other parts of the show. One missing person out of twenty or thirty spoils the show. In Tescos, a missing person impacts very little. As a result if a person has a dodgy back, needs continual medication or has a mental illness, as in one that can't be seen and therefore unpredictable - they keep it quiet, because the producers won't want the risk. Somebody with a bad back leaves a contract early because they cannot do it. Will they tell the next job before they accept the contract? No - they want. Our young people are going into an industry where any disability, long term illness or negative area is bad news.

My experience of colleges and unis is that they are very good at monitoring the health of their students, but they are also prevented from communicating what they know without the student's permission. I myself have had a discussion with an 18 yr old student, and found things her parents really should have known, but been told by the student that it's private and they do not wish the family to know. In a school doing supply, I've discovered a 15yr old shop has attempted suicide a number of times - I've reported it and discovered they have done all the required things, and the lad is essentially on his own - the staff being unable to do anything further.

Public awareness is going up, but until our industry changes, revealing these things loses you jobs. I got a young person last year who had all sorts of medical conditions - revealed when he couldn't do the day to day activities. The problems he has make him a liability to have in the team - making the others have to work harder to cover his inability to do everyday stuff. They start to resent the inequality, and if I had known he was effectively useless for the job he applied for, I'd never have given it to him. This also applies to somebody I had who did have a mental illness. I would have sacked them, but they revealed their condition, and being aware of the campaigns on mental health, I tried to accommodate it. It was a nightmare. Worse still, I was told firmly that I could not reveal their condition to others, and that I could not get rid of them, now I knew. I think only a few other put two and two together - most people thought the person to be rude, blunt, 'not the right sort', stupid and one person I heard say "Is the loony in today?" That's terrible - but the secrecy the person insisted on reinforced the general opinion of the person being odd. Since then I have had a lad who told us he was on medication right at the start - he told everyone that sometimes he gets his meds a bit wrong and if he is behaving oddly - please tell him so he could adjust. Nobody said anything other than good things about him, and it was common for people to yell down the corridor - "you've forgotten the meds again" and see him running to find them. Everybody - even the grumpy ones had no problem with him. I think that the acceptance issue for mental illness really depends on how the individual deals with it. It can be totally fine - but for those who feel they have to keep it a secret, things will go wrong.

We are an industry where fitness to do your job means everything - and I don't think that really can change.
theMTAonline
BRIT Award
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Mental health in performing arts

Post by theMTAonline »

Really late to this, I didn't see the original post, and I'm not really interested in the 'politics' of the discussion, however as the person who launched #time4change - the Mental Health Charter, I do have quite an insight into this topic. NAPM are actually signed up to this initiative, and I would urge you all to read the charter which they have put in its own thread on the forum.

Stats conservatively suggest that 1 in 3 of our industry are most susceptible to suffer from a mental health condition as opposed to the 1 in 4 average in 'civvy street' Debates could rage forever about what creates this higher figure, however we can't deny the facts. #time4change was launched to start a conversation around the topic and to attempt to stop the stigma. Things are changing but not quick enough. More people need to be educated to see the signs of early mental illness, so that behaviours are not simply dismissed or put down as 'theatrical' or 'quirky'

The drama colleges that have signed up for #time4change are committed to educating both their staff and students on the signs/symptoms and indeed treatments available for mental illness - which is why staff from Emil Dale recently went on their Mental Health first aid training. So the Charter is having an impact out there, and students and staff are beginning to have a language with which they can discuss mental health issues.

It's not as simple as breaking it down into 'it's a hard industry', 'they're dealing with rejection', 'they're being judged' all the rest of it. This is of course true in part . . . however it's all just so complex, and as an industry we need to get a greater understanding of it.

Please do read the charter. Olivia's tragic death is yet another reminder that we have a long way to go, and also a reminder that we have to keep listening to our students - to your children, and really importantly, we have to keep listening to what they're NOT saying.
Last edited by theMTAonline on Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply