Vocational training at 16

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

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Hilltop
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Vocational training at 16

Post by Hilltop »

Hello,

This is my first post on here. I've looked through all the posts, but can't find the exact info I need. Apologies if it has already been answered! My dd is 12, has been wanting to do musical theatre for quite a few years and is currently doing lots of extra curriculum stuff to support this. I have no idea about training for this so I am doing some research so that we can help her (I know we have a while, but I want to be prepared!). I have told her that we're happy for her to do full-time vocational training at 16 if she still wants to do this then. I have been looking at a couple of local vocational 6th form performing arts colleges that offer the 'Cambridge Extended Technical Diploma in Musical Theatre, which is equivalent to 3 A-Levels' and i think this would be a good idea for her. My question is for long-term training, how does attending a vocational 6th form, followed by a 3-year degree, compare to doing a 3-year musical theatre diploma straight at 16? I see that a lot of drama/musical theatre schools offer a 3-year musical theatre diploma from 16 - do many students go down this route at this age? or do most students do some sort of 6th form studies followed by a 3-year diploma or degree?

Hope my question makes sense! It is very confusing!
beanie-bean
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by beanie-bean »

To Hilltop
There is no right or wrong answer as ithis is very much a personal thing. Some go at 16, some wait. We waited until DD was 18 because she was very small and physically mmature. I don't think she was ready at 16 especially if she were to move away. However I know other's that have gone at 16 and have been absolutely fine. You just have to do what you think is best for your DD. Wishing you bith all the best xxx
Hilltop
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by Hilltop »

Many thanks for the reply beanie-bean, this is a really useful insight.
Robin64
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by Robin64 »

I agree with beanie, it is just what you are happy with. For ballet training 16 or earlier would be the norm but for MT 18 is more usual and for acting some places prefer older students with more life experience. If your local 16-18 option is okay and you already have decent out of school classes then personally I would choose auditioning at 18. I feel DD was ready at 18 and I'm glad we had her at home for those 2 years. She did a couple of residential courses during that time which introduced living away from home where she made friends that were auditioning at the same time and they have all ended up at colleges around London so still meet up. DD also worked in restaurants between 16 and 18 so learned about work and money and saved up for going away at 18. Useful skills. DD didn't but some people also use that time to learn to drive. If your DD is 12 I suggest trying for a professional panto (too late this year but next) or show. This was a great experience for DD and an introduction to working as a performer. She met people who had trained at the various colleges and that's when she first decided to try for Bird.
jennifer1972
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by jennifer1972 »

Another point that somebody made on a previous thread is that if they start at 16, they will be out in the professional world at 19, competing for jobs against older and more experienced performers. That's something I hadn't thought about. Would they be mature enough to cope with that age 19? Some would but most, including my DD would not. Also, on a day to day basis at college they would be mixing with a majority of older students, socialising with them etc. For some 16 year olds that might be a problem, as would living away from home, getting up and out every morning. There is a lot to consider. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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jasmine2
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by jasmine2 »

Hiya
My dd went to SY until she was 16, then opted to do a 2 year dance / performance diploma at a local college. Then she decided to get her teaching qualifications before embarking on the 3 year level 6 diploma at Bodyworks. She is now 22 and working professionally as an MT perfomer. She felt that she just was not ready at 16 and it has really paid off for her as she has stayed really grounded, is on her 3rd professional contract since graduating in July, and has a great teaching job at Bodyworks and another dance school, which she loves, as back up for when she is 'resting'
Everyone is different though and we know people that went to the big colleges at 16 and have done really well, but it is not just the technique etc, it is about being mature and understanding all the extra 'stuff' that comes along with it.

Go with your gut instinct. Good luck :D
I believe that children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way.......
2dancersmum
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by 2dancersmum »

My DD went to vocational training at 16. I have to say even up to the point she went I wondered if she was ready - moving from a tiny village to a much larger city/college and away from home for the child who got dreadfully homesick on any school trip. She auditioned as we were struggling to find anything locally for aged 16-18 and to test the waters, not really expecting to get an offer, let alone a funded one. However, she thrived at vocational college and it was soon apparent she made the right choice. Just over a third of her year started as 16 year olds with starting age ranging from 16 to 22. When it came to entering the professional world aged 19, well all those on her course had received the same training and preparation and I cant say that age really came into it. A lot of DD's friends (and DD) graduated with contracts - both 19 and 21/22 year olds and actually some of the 21/22 year olds found adapting to their first professional contract hardest so I think it does depend on personality more so than age. I would say to just look at all options for your child and see what suits them most.
mariapanayi
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by mariapanayi »

Hey,

I think it's important to stress that vocational courses at sixteen should be used as a platform in which to continue training - and do not mean someone is the 'finished product' as they are still developing.

I feel that vocational courses at sixteen should only be considered if they provide learners with recognised qualifications, as this ensures whatever pathway they wish to pursue afterwards (whether it's university, drama school or employment) they have plenty of options open to them.

You should consider what is best for your child. There is no right or wrong - providing the school you choose is of a good standard, and their students obtain high grades.

My DD did train full time from the age of sixteen, and graduated with Distinction grades, and was able to go to any university of her choice. She decided to train for a further year to obtain a Level Four Diploma and will re-audition for full time drama schools at 19. This is mainly due to the fact we found a free course for 18-19 year olds, and thought the extra year of free training would be beneficial!

I am very much pro vocational training, but this may be because we found an amazing college for her (performingartscollege.co.uk) - the training really has been phenomenal. She'd have probably achieved average grades at A-Level, but actually achieved the equivalent of 3 A* by completing a diploma instead; she has improved dramatically, and has more chance of success at the next stage of her training; and she has spent the last three years doing something she loves!!

I'm not sure if any of that is helpful!! Just my opinion...
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riverdancefan
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by riverdancefan »

JMO
My DS wouldn't have wanted to move out and do a straight diploma at 16, although he was probably more than capable. Some of that would have been to do with the social side of things, he is quite mature and at 6'2" is capable of passing for older, but he isnt old enough to drink and go to clubs and I wouldn't have wanted him to be tempted to try to do so.
The bonding and social side is so important, and it wasn't the right thing for him.

However having said that, he was always intending to go the A level path, combined with the Btech performing arts at his school. For many reasons this became the wrong decision. He was unhappy and felt like he wasn't being stretched or pushed enough, despite still training outside at Italia Conti etc.

He was miserable and stressed and I had an unhappy lad on my hands.
Ultimately it was decided to go down the AS route, then he left to go to a specialist performing arts college with a fantastic reputation, supported by a scholarship, studying the BTech, He has moved out and away and he is thriving, and loving every second.

We see this as a stepping stone to the next level, albeit a superb one, he doesn't have the pressure of studying for subjects he ultimately wasn't that keen on AND having the pressure of keeping up dance etc outside. His skill set has improved and he is receiving excellent vocational training.

He will be 19 when he finishes his BTech, who knows what might be on offer or what the future holds. He isn't sure about straight acting or musical theatre yet but the support he is getting now is invaluable.

Don't be afraid to change direction if you need to, it's worked for us.
"Tall and proud my mother taught me, this is how we dance" - RIVERDANCE
Hilltop
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by Hilltop »

Thanks so much for all your replies! I didn't expect very many, so I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me your stories. They have all been extremely useful to me and I will be in a much better place to guide my DD in the coming years. I have a couple more questions, but it may be better to start new threads in other forums as they're not directly relevant to post-16 training. This site is great!
lotsolaffs
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by lotsolaffs »

Another thing is remember what it was like when they started year 6 at primary school,you just can't imagine that they will ever be able to cope at secondary school,by end of year 6 you think they are ready.
My DD has matured a lot this year and now I think she will be able to cope if she started at 16 despite thinking last year how will she manage?
klchaplin1980
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by klchaplin1980 »

My daughter started Evolution Foundation College in Colchester at 16 this September. We live 220 miles away in Torquay so my daughter has to live in the approved accommodation which consists of three houses in the same road 2.8 miles away from the College. She shares a house with six other students. She and a couple of her housemates were lucky enough to arrange a lift to and from College every day with another student on the course for a voluntary payment of £5 a week which makes everything so much easier than having to worry about catching buses.We were a bit worried as before my daughter moved in the older students were in trouble with the landlord and College for throwing parties, making too much noise and upsetting the neighbours but when the course started properly everything settled down. There have been quite a few dramas in the personal lives of the students and they all pull together, go out for dinner and work through things together. It is such a lovely atmosphere at College too as obviously they all want the same thing - to get the best out of themselves and they are all genuinely supportive of each other too. The nerves of the first few weeks are now way behind her and she actually enjoys performing in front of her classmates. My daughter has been coming home every weekend since she started as she hated being away from home and her boyfriend so much. Now the boyfriend has gone she realises how much she is missing out on back in Colchester so won't be coming back quite so much. She has enjoyed every second of the course and although it was very hard initially living away from home she knows it was the right decision.
jennifer1972
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by jennifer1972 »

klchaplin1980 wrote:My daughter started Evolution Foundation College in Colchester at 16 this September. We live 220 miles away in Torquay so my daughter has to live in the approved accommodation which consists of three houses in the same road 2.8 miles away from the College. She shares a house with six other students. She and a couple of her housemates were lucky enough to arrange a lift to and from College every day with another student on the course for a voluntary payment of £5 a week which makes everything so much easier than having to worry about catching buses.We were a bit worried as before my daughter moved in the older students were in trouble with the landlord and College for throwing parties, making too much noise and upsetting the neighbours but when the course started properly everything settled down. There have been quite a few dramas in the personal lives of the students and they all pull together, go out for dinner and work through things together. It is such a lovely atmosphere at College too as obviously they all want the same thing - to get the best out of themselves and they are all genuinely supportive of each other too. The nerves of the first few weeks are now way behind her and she actually enjoys performing in front of her classmates. My daughter has been coming home every weekend since she started as she hated being away from home and her boyfriend so much. Now the boyfriend has gone she realises how much she is missing out on back in Colchester so won't be coming back quite so much. She has enjoyed every second of the course and although it was very hard initially living away from home she knows it was the right decision.
That's great news! Where is she thinking of applying for next September. I know they encourage the Evo students to go for the late auditions to make the most out of their course.
klchaplin1980
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Re: Vocational training at 16

Post by klchaplin1980 »

jennifer1972 wrote:
klchaplin1980 wrote:My daughter started Evolution Foundation College in Colchester at 16 this September. We live 220 miles away in Torquay so my daughter has to live in the approved accommodation which consists of three houses in the same road 2.8 miles away from the College. She shares a house with six other students. She and a couple of her housemates were lucky enough to arrange a lift to and from College every day with another student on the course for a voluntary payment of £5 a week which makes everything so much easier than having to worry about catching buses.We were a bit worried as before my daughter moved in the older students were in trouble with the landlord and College for throwing parties, making too much noise and upsetting the neighbours but when the course started properly everything settled down. There have been quite a few dramas in the personal lives of the students and they all pull together, go out for dinner and work through things together. It is such a lovely atmosphere at College too as obviously they all want the same thing - to get the best out of themselves and they are all genuinely supportive of each other too. The nerves of the first few weeks are now way behind her and she actually enjoys performing in front of her classmates. My daughter has been coming home every weekend since she started as she hated being away from home and her boyfriend so much. Now the boyfriend has gone she realises how much she is missing out on back in Colchester so won't be coming back quite so much. She has enjoyed every second of the course and although it was very hard initially living away from home she knows it was the right decision.
That's great news! Where is she thinking of applying for next September. I know they encourage the Evo students to go for the late auditions to make the most out of their course.
Hi Jennifer. Evolution like them to apply for as many courses as possible - preferably 11 or 12. As my daughter is not doing A levels or equivalent she has decided to apply only for institutions that offer the Level 6 Diploma - Italia Conti, Bird, Laine, Bodyworks, Stella Mann, Performers, CPA, Liverpool Theatre School, SLP and Urdang. If she isn't successful with gaining a funded place at any of these I think D&B College would be a good option as they seem to have great opportunities.
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